Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

21 Feb 2013 07:40 #6664 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

D/R graphs work now as expected.

Tested emu-devo8-73c4fd7:
When I activate a throttle hold pitch curve and set some values, leave the page and change the th switch at the switch page the activation state changes to off. I think this is ok for not having an unexpected active pitch curve. But when you go back to the pitch curve you will see: activation status is off, the value fields and buttons are not there but the curve is shown. I think it should be invisible too.

Gyro page: the values are labeled Value1, Value2 and Value3. In the head line is mentioned to which switch this is bound. But I have no association switch state to ValueX. It would be clearer if the values are labeled MIX0, ... (or whatever is selected).

Throttle Hold: Why is a quite simple page for enabling a special flat throttle curve? Throttle hold could be seen as the fourth flight state (normal, idle up1+2, th). So it should be configured like the th pitch curve as the fourth state in the throttle curve setting.
Or: If you think the throttle hold value is too important to hide it behind some other pages and give it his own page this is ok for me but should me mentioned there that a new pitch curve can be configured? Or place the th pitch curve activation button on the th page too?

Timer page: a timer with no switch associated to it does not run (and not: needs no switch to run). Should the text in the switch field be changed from "None" to "disabled"?

On every page: Sometimes I miss a cancel / reset button while playing around. Their non-existence might have been discussed longer ago (please don't hurt me because I don't remember). If not I would propose this.

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 10:52 #6670 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: Tested emu-devo8-73c4fd7:
When I activate a throttle hold pitch curve and set some values, leave the page and change the th switch at the switch page the activation state changes to off. I think this is ok for not having an unexpected active pitch curve. But when you go back to the pitch curve you will see: activation status is off, the value fields and buttons are not there but the curve is shown. I think it should be invisible too.

IMO changing the throttle hold switch assignment shouldn't invalidate the config's other parts, so the 4th pitch curve should stay too, however it's switch should be replaced.

rbe2012 wrote: Gyro page: the values are labeled Value1, Value2 and Value3. In the head line is mentioned to which switch this is bound. But I have no association switch state to ValueX. It would be clearer if the values are labeled MIX0, ... (or whatever is selected).

Probably would be more clear if they were called Value0, Value1 and Value2 to be directly assigned to switch states 0, 1, 2...

rbe2012 wrote: Throttle Hold: Why is a quite simple page for enabling a special flat throttle curve? Throttle hold could be seen as the fourth flight state (normal, idle up1+2, th). So it should be configured like the th pitch curve as the fourth state in the throttle curve setting.
Or: If you think the throttle hold value is too important to hide it behind some other pages and give it his own page this is ok for me but should me mentioned there that a new pitch curve can be configured? Or place the th pitch curve activation button on the th page too?

I guess this is the whole reason of the standard ui, to be like the other transmitters...
However I would like to see the throttle hold switch assignment on that page too. I hate running up and down the menus to configure one feature...

rbe2012 wrote: Timer page: a timer with no switch associated to it does not run (and not: needs no switch to run). Should the text in the switch field be changed from "None" to "disabled"?

No, even the timers without a switch can be started and stopped from the main form by clicking into their box...

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rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

21 Feb 2013 12:35 #6683 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

FDR wrote: IMO changing the throttle hold switch assignment shouldn't invalidate the config's other parts, so the 4th pitch curve should stay too, however it's switch should be replaced.

Also ok.

I hate running up and down the menus to configure one feature...

Agreed!

No, even the timers without a switch can be started and stopped from the main form by clicking into their box...

I will never stop learning...

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PhracturedBlue
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21 Feb 2013 13:01 - 21 Feb 2013 13:02 #6687 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

FDR wrote:
rbe2012 wrote: Throttle Hold: Why is a quite simple page for enabling a special flat throttle curve? Throttle hold could be seen as the fourth flight state (normal, idle up1+2, th). So it should be configured like the th pitch curve as the fourth state in the throttle curve setting.
Or: If you think the throttle hold value is too important to hide it behind some other pages and give it his own page this is ok for me but should me mentioned there that a new pitch curve can be configured? Or place the th pitch curve activation button on the th page too?
I guess this is the whole reason of the standard ui, to be like the other transmitters...
However I would like to see the throttle hold switch assignment on that page too. I hate running up and down the menus to configure one feature...

There's also the issue that there really is very little free room on the devo10, so this wouldn't fit on the curve-assign page most likely (there's a little room in the header where the on/off box would be, but not enough).
I could likely enable setting the switch here in addition to the other page, but that might be confusing.

Also, a reset button is likely possible. I'll add it to my list to investigate. The devo8 interface came from the devo10, and it doesn't have as much free space as there is in the 8.

Last edit: 21 Feb 2013 13:02 by PhracturedBlue.

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 13:03 #6688 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

PhracturedBlue wrote:
FDR wrote:
rbe2012 wrote: Throttle Hold: Why is a quite simple page for enabling a special flat throttle curve? Throttle hold could be seen as the fourth flight state (normal, idle up1+2, th). So it should be configured like the th pitch curve as the fourth state in the throttle curve setting.
Or: If you think the throttle hold value is too important to hide it behind some other pages and give it his own page this is ok for me but should me mentioned there that a new pitch curve can be configured? Or place the th pitch curve activation button on the th page too?
I guess this is the whole reason of the standard ui, to be like the other transmitters...
However I would like to see the throttle hold switch assignment on that page too. I hate running up and down the menus to configure one feature...
There's also the issue that there really is very little free room on the devo10, so this wouldn't fit on the curve-assign page most likely (there's a little room in the header where the on/off box would be, but not enough).
I could likely enable setting the switch here in addition to the other page, but that might be confusing.

Also, a reset button is likely possible. I'll add it to my list to investigate. The devo8 interface came from the devo10, and it doesn't have as much free space as there is in the 8.

Oops, sorry!
I meant the throttle hold switch assignment on the throttle hold page too...

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PhracturedBlue
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21 Feb 2013 13:18 #6692 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

sorry still confused. it is kinda early and my brain is still fuzzy.
you mean move the curve-assignment to the thold page? That doesn't help the devo10 at all, though it seems a but more intuitive to me.

Oh wait, you mean move the actual switch used by thold to this page? We could, though I think from a process perspective you are likely to assign all your switches at once, and thus doing them on one page would seem more intuitive to me.
We could make the switch name in the header into a spin-box so you could change it on either page (and do this for every page with such a header). I'm not sure it is a good idea though, just a thought. Or we could just duplicate the config as another line on that page.

As should be obvious, I really haven't played with stock firmwares much, so have no idea how this maps to Walkera's implementation.

I'm open to opinions on this.

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 13:42 #6695 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Sorry, it's my poor english...

I'm talking about the throttle hold page.
It has an on/off option and the th value.
I wish there was the throttle hold switch assignment on this page too, instead only showing the selected switch in the header (we don't need both), so when I want to configure my throttle hold, I could do it on one page.

I would leave the option on the switch assignment page too, for the example you gave: if somebody wants to make all the switch assignments at once, or just want to see to which functions the switches are assigned, he could do...

In the original fw it was even worse then it is now in the standard ui, because the switch assignment and the throttle hold config were in a completely different menu, but we shouldn't copy that...

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rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

21 Feb 2013 14:32 #6705 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Throttle hold works at four points now:
- choosing to use it or not (on/off) (th page)
- defining the switch to use for (switch page)
- defining the throttle value for th (now th page, might be throttle page?)
- defining the pitch curve for th, if wanted (pitch page)

So it is spread over many places. The argument to have a fast overview is good, I think. So I propose to make the settings where they belong (switch, throttle, pitch page) and make the throttle hold page mostly read only (except on/off) and show all values there (on/off, switch, throttle and pitch curve). The switch button / curves could link to the correct page to make the settings.

No idea if you will think it is too confusing for the users...

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 20:56 - 22 Feb 2013 05:15 #6725 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Reboot of DEVO 8 with the latest 5b6a882 version:
Open the throttle or pitch curves of the standard ui and click right on the mode spinbox.
The tx hangs for two seconds and reboots...

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 05:15 by FDR.

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 20:58 #6726 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Subtrim spinboxes should have large steps.

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FDR
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21 Feb 2013 21:05 #6727 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Why do spinboxes of the switch assignment page have sound, while other spinboxes do not?

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PhracturedBlue
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22 Feb 2013 02:01 #6747 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

FDR wrote: Reboot of DEVO 8 with the latest 5b6a882 version:
Open the throttle or pitch curves of the standard ui and click right on the mode spinbox.
The tx hangs for two seconds and reboots...

You need to include the devo8.elf file (in your build dir) with the errors.txt for me to make any use of your errors.txt file

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gapi
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22 Feb 2013 03:05 #6750 by gapi

Replied by gapi on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

First I give thanks for the standard mode. Thanks! Much!

I like being able to have the Gyro on the Mixer switch also.

When I read you say "Fixed". Are you talking about your copy of a future release or a current nightly?

Thanks Again

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vlad_vy
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22 Feb 2013 04:48 - 22 Feb 2013 04:51 #6756 by vlad_vy

Replied by vlad_vy on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Devo 8, Std GUI
Throttle hold = On, Switch= GEAR, Pitch curve->Throttle hold=On.

If I switch to Advansed GUI, I see -
THR channel has not Throttle hold (fourth) page, GEAR channel has source=GEAR1, CYC-COL (THR) has fourth page with switch=GEAR0.

For my opinion, there is not any sence to have possibility switch GUI from Std to Advanced without model reset. It do nothing for learning cycle, but opposite - it confused users.

If you like, you use Advanced GUI,
If you don't like, you use Standard GUI.
And vice versa, but both without possibility to switch GUI without model reset.

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 04:51 by vlad_vy.

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FDR
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22 Feb 2013 05:17 - 22 Feb 2013 12:36 #6757 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

PhracturedBlue wrote:
FDR wrote: Reboot of DEVO 8 with the latest 5b6a882 version:
Open the throttle or pitch curves of the standard ui and click right on the mode spinbox.
The tx hangs for two seconds and reboots...
You need to include the devo8.elf file (in your build dir) with the errors.txt for me to make any use of your errors.txt file

OK, I've added it to the original post...

EDIT: BTW it doesn't happen in the emulator...

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 12:36 by FDR.

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rbe2012
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22 Feb 2013 07:31 - 22 Feb 2013 07:31 #6764 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

vlad_vy wrote: ...THR channel has not Throttle hold (fourth) page

!GEAR0 is the safety switch for the throttle channel (no 4th mixer curve)

GEAR channel has source=GEAR1

Don't know what it is good for, but this is configured in standard mode and correctly transferred to advanced. Maybe it should be changed in standard mode? (I took a new model, switched to standard and there it was)

CYC-COL (THR) has fourth page with switch=GEAR0.

Cannot reproduce this.

...both without possibility to switch GUI without model reset.

I think the advanced mixer is a superset of the standard and we should give everyone parallel to his growing knowledge give a way to change to advanced and the more possibilities without forcing him to do this from scratch.
Especially because the standard mixer model-ini does not have other values as I could produce with an advanced mixer. We should make some effort to make the change from standard to advanced bullet-proof.

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 07:31 by rbe2012.

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vlad_vy
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22 Feb 2013 07:49 - 22 Feb 2013 07:50 #6769 by vlad_vy

Replied by vlad_vy on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

Pitch curve->Throttle hold=Off - translate to:

Pitch curve->Throttle hold=On - translate to:

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 07:50 by vlad_vy.

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RandMental
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22 Feb 2013 07:57 #6770 by RandMental

Replied by RandMental on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

vlad_vy wrote: Devo 8, Std GUI

For my opinion, there is not any sence to have possibility switch GUI from Std to Advanced without model reset. It do nothing for learning cycle, but opposite - it confused users.

If you like, you use Advanced GUI,
If you don't like, you use Standard GUI.
And vice versa, but both without possibility to switch GUI without model reset.

I agree 100% with Vlad, these two GUIs are aimed at very different user types.

Due to Walkera's focus on beginners and mostly sub-450 heli's, I believe the Standard GUI is a great and necessary introduction into Deviation. The other group are probably your serious flyer which whants the flexibility of Deviation and in the process also lose a few TX's.

(Due to Deviation, I just sold my Futaba 8FGS) (1 hour ago

)

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domcars0
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22 Feb 2013 09:03 - 22 Feb 2013 09:04 #6777 by domcars0

Replied by domcars0 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

100% with Vlad : +1

Devo 10 (+7e) owner. It's mine, please don't touch it with your big fingers

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 09:04 by domcars0.

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rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

22 Feb 2013 09:51 - 22 Feb 2013 09:51 #6782 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote:
vlad_vy wrote: CYC-COL (THR) has fourth page with switch=GEAR0.
Cannot reproduce this.

Sorry vlad, looked at the throttle curves, not CYC-COL.

Last edit: 22 Feb 2013 09:51 by rbe2012.

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Standard Mixer Take-2

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