UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol

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31 Jan 2014 23:04 #19538 by cstratton
Replied by cstratton on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Interesting discoveries. Though if your primary goal is to get flying again, a basic soldering iron will cost less than a replacement board.

You don't actually need a particularly tiny iron for most SMT work, as the key is to use plenty of flux and let surface tension of the solder create the desired connections while avoiding the undesired ones. A little fine copper braid will clean up mistakes.

It's 0402 passives and trying to touch up the edges of QFN IC's where I do break out the really tiny tips.

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03 Feb 2014 10:32 #19778 by btoschi
Replied by btoschi on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
The problem isn't soldering itself - its just that there are many huge components (standard resistor, and motor connectors) within 2mm range.
If it had been the FET at the other end (4 in a row, near each motor connector), I would have resolderd it already.

And since I want to have a look at the SWD debug port and use it for binding tests, I scare to toast the remaining parts when trying the impossible (I've already tested with cold iron that I'd touch at least the motor connector and the resistor with my 25W iron).

I've ordered a brand new U818 transmitter for 15€ and then I'll see if it binds with the new boards. As last resort (w/o too much hope though) I have contacted UDI with my problem, lets see if they reply (and If it has any value) :P

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20 Feb 2014 22:32 - 20 Feb 2014 22:36 #20669 by btoschi
Replied by btoschi on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Some news on my U817B receiver (still I have no TX which binds with it).

I was able to solder wires to RF PCB and sniff SPI - and found that its using frequency hopping.
Channel sequence is (switches every 0.009975s when waiting for bind packets)
21 49 0B 39 10 25 42 1D 31 35 14 28 3D 18 2D 07

Init sequence is
0.000 1 W_REGISTER(RX_PW_P0) 08 
0.000 2 W_REGISTER(STATUS) 70 
0.000 3 W_REGISTER(RF_SETUP) 27 
0.000 4 W_REGISTER(SETUP_RETR) 3A 
0.000 5 W_REGISTER(SETUP_AW) 01 
0.001 6 W_REGISTER(EN_RXADDR) 01 
0.001 7 W_REGISTER(EN_AA) 3F 
0.001 8 W_REGISTER(CONFIG) 0F 
0.001 9 R_REGISTER(FEATURE) 00 
0.001 10 ACTIVATE(73) 
0.001 11 W_REGISTER(FEATURE) 00 
0.001 12 W_REGISTER(DYNPD) 00 
0.001 14 ACTIVATE(53) bank switch to 1 
0.001 15 W_REGISTER(00) 40 4B 01 E2 
0.002 16 W_REGISTER(01) C0 4B 00 00 
0.002 17 W_REGISTER(02) D0 FC 8C 02 
0.002 18 W_REGISTER(03) 99 00 39 21 
0.002 19 W_REGISTER(04) F9 B6 8A 1B 
0.003 20 W_REGISTER(05) 24 06 7F A6
0.003 21 W_REGISTER(0C) 00 12 73 00 
0.003 22 W_REGISTER(0D) 46 B4 80 00 
0.003 23 W_REGISTER(0E) 41 10 04 82 20 08 08 F2 7D EF FF 
0.004 24 W_REGISTER(04) FF B6 8A 1B 
0.004 25 W_REGISTER(04) F9 B6 8A 1B 
0.009 27 W_REGISTER(07) 70 
0.009 28 W_REGISTER(10) A4 84 65 
0.009 29 W_REGISTER(0A) A4 84 65 
0.010 31 W_REGISTER(07) 70 
0.010 32 W_REGISTER(05) 21
0.010 33 FLUSH_RX 
0.010 34 W_REGISTER(00) 0F

Thus it listens for 8 bytes payload being send with 250kbps using default RX address 0xE7E7E7 (address width is 3 bytes) on one of these channels.

Anyone knows what the
ACTIVATE(73)
does ? Beken feature again?
edit:
answering myself, the BK2421 datashee tells us:

activates the following features:
• R_RX_PL_WID
• W_ACK_PAYLOAD
• W_TX_PAYLOAD_NOACK



Since I never sniffed RX side of U817OG board (found in U818A) and U816 boards I cannot tell for sure whether these are hopping too, or not. (That would involve soldering to MINI54ZAN or BK2421, which is out of reach with my soldering skills).
But I now that the transmitter sends on different channels (see Post #18809 ) and it uses address 0xE77EE7 for transmission, thus they cannot work together.
Last edit: 20 Feb 2014 22:36 by btoschi.

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16 May 2014 04:33 #23273 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Some progress in this protocol hacking ?

The UDI 839 is coming next .... and it would be great if it can be also "deviationed"

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19 May 2014 19:33 #23367 by btoschi
Replied by btoschi on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Sorry, but my family (two kids, three in two month :P ) and my job keep my quiet busy ...

Anyway, at least I was able to get a Transmitter which speaks that U817B protocol. Same housing and even same PCB (with same text printed on) like the other U818A Transmitters I have. An guess what ... its from a rebranded U816 (not "A").

Multimod nRF isn't working properly and my port of Deviation protocol stack to Arduino (AVR C to be precise) did not it far yet.

Another thing is that I'm almost sure that it will use another variation of this protocol ... (U820 also speaks a slightly different protocol) *gosh*

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19 May 2014 20:20 #23370 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol

btoschi wrote: Sorry, but my family (two kids, three in two month :P ) and my job keep my quiet busy ...

Anyway, at least I was able to get a Transmitter which speaks that U817B protocol. Same housing and even same PCB (with same text printed on) like the other U818A Transmitters I have. An guess what ... its from a rebranded U816 (not "A").

Multimod nRF isn't working properly and my port of Deviation protocol stack to Arduino (AVR C to be precise) did not it far yet.

Another thing is that I'm almost sure that it will use another variation of this protocol ... (U820 also speaks a slightly different protocol) *gosh*


Ok Ok :( ......

Maybe it's completly out of topic .... but maybe it can help you to debug your Arduino implementation

hackaday.com/2014/05/10/reading-2-4ghz-t...ers-with-an-arduino/

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08 Jun 2014 20:08 - 08 Jun 2014 20:10 #23976 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Hi ....

I just received a new nanoquad copter from UDI... the UDI U839.
It's based on a Beken 2423.....












If someone want to try to hack this protocol ... (I already tested all nRF24L01 based protocols :( ).
It will be hard to hook probes ... (0.1mm between pins)
Attachments:
Last edit: 08 Jun 2014 20:10 by SeByDocKy.

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08 Jun 2014 23:00 #23978 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
you can hook the probes to the MCU which likely has much wider pitch (I can see it in the bottom of your pic)
Alternatively, you can (carefully) scrape off the covering on the traces and solder to those. I don't like doing so, but sometimes it is the easiest way.

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09 Jun 2014 03:14 #23981 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol

PhracturedBlue wrote: you can hook the probes to the MCU which likely has much wider pitch (I can see it in the bottom of your pic)
Alternatively, you can (carefully) scrape off the covering on the traces and solder to those. I don't like doing so, but sometimes it is the easiest way.


Clearly easier options :) Thanks :)

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09 Jun 2014 10:16 - 09 Jun 2014 10:34 #23988 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Ok

I captured 2 1.1.15 sessons

First : TX on and quad off. I armed the TX then play with right stick, flipping button and then left stick and speed button

mon-partage.fr/f/oPrZM7zm/

Second : quad on, TX on. Binding and armed the TX then play with right stick, flipping button and then left stick and speed button


mon-partage.fr/f/YGxQqtgd/
Last edit: 09 Jun 2014 10:34 by SeByDocKy.

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09 Jun 2014 16:23 - 09 Jun 2014 21:06 #23991 by btoschi
Replied by btoschi on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Hi SeByDocKy !

I'm back from holiday and you have SPI traces ready, great job !

Anyway, for the future, its best to export them using hex values from scana logic (MOSI/MISO are ASCII, non-printable characters encoded as e.g. '255', but some 'special rules').
I had to hack Victz' script to cope with that input :P

Anyway, the protocol looks very familiar.

Basic facts:
8 Bytes Payload
RF Channel 0x23 and RX/TX Address E7 7E E7 used for binding procedure, TX sends its 'Fake random ID' and waits for RX to send back a packet with TX ID and the RX ID (as far as I can tell this is also some kind of random).

After that is starts to use the RX/TX Adress as sent by receiver and ackowledged before (here: D7 C1 B7) and makes use of channel hopping on these channels, takes ~ 5 Seconds for one round.
37 16 2A 3F 1A 2F 08 23 48 0D 3B 12 27 44 1F 33

Looks mostly like the more recently discoverd protocol (note that init sequence slightly differs), but the RX/TX address for bind is e7 7e e7, like in the old protocol. I'll have to re-check that one.

Could you be so kind to capture some more traces of actual bind process, with varying times of rx/tx being powered up ? I just want to be sure that the TX/RX ids vary as I know from my quads and ensure that the channel sequence stays as it is ...
so far it looks like its an easy option for UDI protocol, once I get it started ...

I'm attaching the modified script so everyone can work with it.

File Attachment:

File Name: nRF24_decode.zip
File Size:2 KB
Attachments:
Last edit: 09 Jun 2014 21:06 by btoschi.

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09 Jun 2014 17:11 - 09 Jun 2014 17:18 #23993 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol

btoschi wrote: Hi SeByDocKy !

Could you be so kind to capture some more traces of actual bind process, with varying times of rx/tx being powered up ? I just want to be sure that the TX/RX ids vary as I know from my quads and ensure that the channel sequence stays as it is ...
so far it looks like its an easy option for UDI protocol, once I get it started ...

I'm attaching the modified script so everyone can work with it.


Hi great :)

Yes the UDI U839 is the last model (I guess with the U830, a X4 clone)

Ok I will start to capture more binding process asap (give 2h maximum :)

More I should receive a second U839 in few days. So a good news in the case if there is a special algorithm for multi users.
Last edit: 09 Jun 2014 17:18 by SeByDocKy.

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09 Jun 2014 18:34 #24000 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Ok 2 new binding session

mon-partage.fr/f/HgyWV0cf/

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09 Jun 2014 22:06 - 09 Jun 2014 22:08 #24005 by btoschi
Replied by btoschi on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Great, thanks for them.

Same Channel sequence (though it starts at different place), TX/RX IDs change pseudo randomly as expected. Protocol is much like the U816/8 V2, but using another RF channel to send out bind packets, and making real use of the very last byte of the payload now (its always 0x4A for data packets on U818 V2).

Last byte of payload of U839 is CRC of all bytes but the first (which indicates type of packet) but anded by 0x3f, thus limited to 0..3f *ouch*
(They must encode the data unary internally, and memory is limited. One and only conclusion I can come up with :side: )

Nevertheless this should be an easy option to add once I have something up and running.

SPI Trace of another quad is highly welcome, and once I find out that its really using other channels, a trace with swapped transmitter should clarify who dicates the channels (if they ever change - I do not expect that from what I have seen with UDI protocols so far).
Last edit: 09 Jun 2014 22:08 by btoschi.

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10 Jun 2014 05:41 #24010 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol

btoschi wrote: Great, thanks for them.

SPI Trace of another quad is highly welcome, and once I find out that its really using other channels, a trace with swapped transmitter should clarify who dicates the channels (if they ever change - I do not expect that from what I have seen with UDI protocols so far).


Ok asap I will receive it,, I will trace also this second one. Anyway, if you have some to try.... you can build either for my Devo 7E or 10 :)

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09 Apr 2015 10:40 #30927 by kr0sh1
Replied by kr0sh1 on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Hi guys,

Did development of the UDI U818A protocol ever reach completion?

I've been doing my own research into how the drone communicates for my final university project and, being new to logic sniffing etc, gravitated to your existing work,

I posted my findings on Hackaday.io , on my project page, and there'll be schematics and source code for my design by the end of the month if anyone is interested in automated flight or machine vision,

But I could really do with some help/pointers if anyone has a moment - very very stuck! I can't get the drone to pair with it's original transceiver rigged up to an Arduino and you're the best crowd I've seen for this sort of thing.

Any help is greatly appreciated, many thanks

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09 Apr 2015 13:21 #30932 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
I don't know if btoschi ever got the UDI818 working. As he notes above there are 2 different models with different protocols. Is there a reason you chose this specific quad? If you are focusing on machine-vision, why spend time developing a protocol 1st? Go to the list of supported models on the left of your screen, pick one, then golook at the arduino code posted here: www.deviationtx.com/forum/6-general-disc...ones-with-smartphone

If you want help here, you need to ask specific questions. You mention a 'transceiver' but in RC, we have a transmitter (the thing with the sticks) and a receiver (the thing in the vehicle) regardless of whether there is bi-di communication. I don't know what issues you are having, so I have no idea what pointers you need. I can tell you that I am unlikely to try to debug someone else's code on Arduino, given that I primarily work on ARM, so if you are looking for a set of eyes, they probably won't be mine. But if you need help on methods, or spi parsing, then I can try to help.

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09 Apr 2015 14:08 #30933 by kr0sh1
Replied by kr0sh1 on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
Okay, I'll be more explicit in future.

I'm interfacing to the BK2421 on the TX of the UDI U818A, and attempting to sniff the logic coming from it's SPI interface, using a Bus Pirate (logic sniffer) and a simple script,

First off, is wiring straight into the SPI pins of the TX the first thing you'd do to discover it's protocol?

In your opinion, is reverse engineering one of these protocols an enormous amount of work and should I just be using a more supported drone, or could this be achieved in a couple of days?

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09 Apr 2015 15:59 #30937 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
it really depends on the vehicle. In this case btoschi already tried with limited success I believe to analyze the protocol, so this is probably not the best choice if protocol analysis is a secondary goal. My point was purely that if your focus is machine vision, why get side-tracked doing protocol analysis which could end up as its own rabbit hole.

That said, technically, yes hooking up an SPI sniffer to the Tx is the best 1st step. You need to determine the initialization sequence of the Tx, and the timing and composition of the packets. Generally these are reasonably easy to do. The initialization sequence can just be replayed. The packets are usually 16 bytes unencrypted with 1 or 2 bytes per channel. With an NRF based protocol, you need to worry about whether there is a bi-directional binding scheme, and whether any data from the Rx is used in the channel hopping sequence. Usually the channel-hopping algorithm is the most challenging to figure out. it may be a hard-coded set of channels (which may or may not be transmitted to the Rx ahead of time), or it may be computed based on the Tx and/or Rx ID. Often it is not too difficult to emulate a specific Rx/Tx pair (y replaying the Tx channel hopping scheme(, but then you can't fly multiple vehicles in the same airspace because you need to know the parameters that determine the hopping.

Again, given your goals as I understand them, I think you'd be better off with a different quad as the basis, but if you really want to go forward with this, then read this thread carefully, look at btoschi's existing work, scan the SPI bus and see how your data compares to his. And post here any questions since we will certainly want to incorporate any of your findings into an eventual Deviation protocol.

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09 Apr 2015 18:49 #30946 by victzh
Replied by victzh on topic UDI R/C U816 / U818 Protocol
I read the thread again - no it did not come to usable state.

Banggood for the request "quadcopter with camera" gives 41 result, ranging from $37 to $880. If you can afford a model from supported list, I'd suggest you to buy a new one.

If you choose to reverse engineer your existing UDI 818, solder to it and publish the SPI traces, we'll definitely help you.

You mentioned Arduino, how exactly did you connect your TX to it? Do you have any other RF modules - nRF24L01+ or Beken (Inhaos) for example?

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