WLToys Q303

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20 Nov 2016 14:49 - 21 Nov 2016 06:57 #56081 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
I apologize! After swapping a discrete NRF24L01+ module it binds !!!! Throttle and Elev are working. Rudder and Aileron seem inverted. Camera gimbal is ok. Altitude hold seems ok too. I cannot take it out for a flight test so here are just some quick findings.
Good job Goebish you have made it !

Now I am thinking about swapping the chip on the 4-in-1 module but this tiny QFN seems a bit too challenging.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2016 06:57 by ajtank.

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20 Nov 2016 14:51 - 20 Nov 2016 14:55 #56083 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
Ah cool, the problem was that I didn't notice that xn297l whitening was disabled (that's pretty rare, I had only seen that for the YI ZHAN i6s so far).
I'll reverse rudder & aileron then ...
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 14:55 by goebish.

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20 Nov 2016 14:56 #56084 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
So ... you confirm that it works with a genuine nrf24l01, but not the 3-in-1 ?

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20 Nov 2016 15:08 - 20 Nov 2016 15:11 #56086 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
I just retested with several other modules:
the one from BG per your suggestion: ok
another three modules from 3 different Chinese sellers: ok
Sadly only the 4-in-1 does not work :(
I am not 100% sure if this is related to the chip itself or the layout of the 4-in-1, only can tell after I swap the genuine chip bought from Arrow USA.
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 15:11 by ajtank.

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20 Nov 2016 15:14 - 20 Nov 2016 15:16 #56087 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
Now you understand why I prefer not using one of those modules ;)
I just updated the build, reversed aileron & rudder, if everything is working fine I'll try to add the CX-35 format.

7e: www.dropbox.com/s/xomobgrvz6d14l8/deviat...0.0-38f78d6.zip?dl=1
10: www.dropbox.com/s/140w4tuagmcw76p/deviat...0.0-38f78d6.zip?dl=1

Then we'll have to try to crack txid / channels ... Is it possible to connect the logic analyzer to the rf chip in the RX ? Is it a QFN (xn297L) or SOIC (xn297LBW) ?
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 15:16 by goebish.

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20 Nov 2016 15:28 - 20 Nov 2016 15:36 #56088 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
New build is good. The left and right are now normal. Perhaps Seby can also try with his Devo 7e.
I shall speak to the 4-in-1 seller about the issue. I know it is not a scientific conclusion but the marking on the 4-in-1 chip is weird compared to the other working chips.
Are the E010 and Q303 the only known models using 250kbps?

I may not be able to capture the receiver so soon. Appreciate if Seby has time to help. FYI I now got the 3rd Q303 stock transmitter.
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 15:36 by ajtank.

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20 Nov 2016 15:39 #56089 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
We know for sure they are fake nrf24l01 because auto acknowledge doesn't work, see this comment on hackaday:
hackaday.com/2015/02/23/nordic-nrf24l01-...ake/#comment-2474764

nrf24l01 protocols using 250 kbps bitrate:
ASSAN
BlueFly
CFlie
FQ777
HiSky (3ch ground protocol only)
FY326
iNAV
ne260
MJXq (E010)
mt99xx (i6S)
KN (optional)
SLT
SymaX (X5)
V202 (optional)

That doesn't mean that neither of those protocols will work with a 4-in-1, looks like bitrate is not the only factor ...

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20 Nov 2016 15:51 #56090 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
Is there a chance that there are several variants even for the fake chip? It makes me feel too lucky to have picked 3 good modules from 3 different Chinese sellers.
Looking further from your link I noticed the famous Si24R1
a) has incompatible NO_ACK bit
b) has higher transmit power output and hence higher current consumption

Is it possible for you to build me some quick Arduino sketches to test the modules? Well it is solely for my interest as I just started to learn a bit about programming.

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20 Nov 2016 16:01 #56092 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
There are probably better fakes than others, but honestly I'm not a specialist ;)

What do you want to test ? I don't feel like writing test code :P
If you're a beginner you might have a look at the samples programs of the nrf24l01 library.
Or check my nrf24-multipro project: github.com/goebish/nrf24_multipro

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20 Nov 2016 16:22 #56094 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
If the fakes are mainly Si24R1 then the easiest way is to set the Tx to a constant carrier mode and check the power output and current consumption. Anyway it is just for interest.
It will bring more benefit to the community if the 4-in-1 seller can disclose what chip he has actually used.

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20 Nov 2016 16:27 - 20 Nov 2016 16:37 #56095 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
The benefit he could bring would be to ensure he sources genuine Nordic ICs instead of trying to save 50 cents per module ;)
Though we are just lucky that xn297 emulation works so well with a nrf24l01 because they're not strictly using the same modulation parameters, and they can't be changed on the nrf24l01 and clones.

There's already a patch in Deviation to fix the AA issue of those chips (not possible with every protocols tho), but for this other particular issue there's nothing much that I can do ...
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 16:37 by goebish.

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20 Nov 2016 16:59 - 20 Nov 2016 17:01 #56097 by SeByDocKy
Replied by SeByDocKy on topic WLToys Q303
The D7E build works fine for me too ...
with a BG standalond nRF24L01+ module
Last edit: 20 Nov 2016 17:01 by SeByDocKy.

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20 Nov 2016 17:18 #56098 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
Thanks for reporting !

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21 Nov 2016 06:08 #56124 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303

goebish wrote: The benefit he could bring would be to ensure he sources genuine Nordic ICs instead of trying to save 50 cents per module ;)
Though we are just lucky that xn297 emulation works so well with a nrf24l01 because they're not strictly using the same modulation parameters, and they can't be changed on the nrf24l01 and clones.

There's already a patch in Deviation to fix the AA issue of those chips (not possible with every protocols tho), but for this other particular issue there's nothing much that I can do ...


I chatted with the seller and he denied the use of alternate chips to jeopardize his business. However he also could not be 100% sure that the chips he sourced were genuine or not. He is going to purchase a new batch of chips and test the YD717 protocol as reported here.

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21 Nov 2016 17:30 - 21 Nov 2016 17:35 #56146 by hexfet
Replied by hexfet on topic WLToys Q303
In the hackaday comment the Nordic employee said " The issue with the counterfeit devices is that when they enabled “Dynamic Payload Length” (EN_DPL) in the “FEATURE” register, one bit get’s activated in the on-air payload (the NO_ACK bit) This bit should be active high (according to the Nordic datasheet), but it’s actually implemented the other way around. When EN_DPL is activated, the NO_ACK bit get reversed in the real nRF-devices."

In the nRF23L01+ datasheet, "An ACK packet can contain an optional payload from PRX to PTX. In order to use this feature, the
Dynamic Payload Length (DPL) feature must be enabled. "

As far as I know none of the deviation nRF protocols return a payload in the ACK packets. So a possible workaround is to change those protocols to not enable DPL. The counterfeit chips may not behave as expected, but this might allow AA to work. No way for me to test this till next week.

Without a payload the auto-acknowledge really doesn't add anything to the protocols. After binding the only effect is to limit the range of the protocol. During binding it is nice to know for sure there's a quad out there responding, but probably not absolutely necessary. A more drastic workaround would be rework the protocols to eliminate AA.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2016 17:35 by hexfet.

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22 Nov 2016 03:59 #56153 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
I think one of the protocol having a payload in the ACK packets is iNAV (I've to check tho, I'm not 100% sure ...)
The problem here is not AA, but that the XN297L doesn't receive packets from (some) fake nrf24l01 when using higher frequencies at 250kbps.
Some protocols are working better than others, this has probably something to do with XN297 init parameters as not all machines are using the sames.

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26 Nov 2016 09:48 - 26 Nov 2016 09:49 #56292 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
I have replaced the chip on the 4-in-1 with a new one sourced from USA and it still cannot bind. Only separate NRF24L01 module can bind. Any other thoughts?
Last edit: 26 Nov 2016 09:49 by ajtank.

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26 Nov 2016 10:21 #56293 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic WLToys Q303
Have you tried to reduce output power ?

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26 Nov 2016 10:43 #56294 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
Yes, I tried this too. It can bind every quad I got except Q303.

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26 Nov 2016 13:51 #56297 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic WLToys Q303
I desoldered the USA chip off the 4-in-1 and mounted it on a separate module. It binds. This is really weird.

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