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Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE

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05 May 2016 11:58 #47814 by yelong98
yelong98 created the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
hi, guys .
i get my devo7e updataed the V5.0.0 version, i use this tx to control XK K120 ,yes FHSS protocal works well !
But i found the software seems to mistake the AIL and ELE channel .I exchanged the ail and ele plug ,then it works . I hope i made some mistake during using the new version. Anyone else found something wrong like me ?

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05 May 2016 12:53 #47816 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
Nothing has been changed in the heli mixer code.
There may have been changes to templates. Have you copied them over?
Have you already tried to start a 2nd fresh model and load a new updated template?

Are you using advanced gui or standard gui?

Can you post your model.ini?

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06 May 2016 02:58 - 06 May 2016 03:02 #47853 by yelong98
yelong98 replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
thanks for your reply.
I do have copyed all files to 2M flash.
i use standard mode for mixer gui . i find that if i use advanced mode , AIL and ELE channel are right ,but if i use standard mode ,they are mistaked. i post my model.ini here.

File Attachment:

File Name: model1.ini
File Size:4 KB
Attachments:
Last Edit: 06 May 2016 03:02 by yelong98.

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06 May 2016 03:08 #47855 by yelong98
yelong98 replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
in tha page of channel monitor ,i can see the signal changing ,if i move the ail stick ,the channel 2 changes but not he channel1 .Acrrording to FHSS protocal , channel 1 is ail .




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06 May 2016 04:20 #47857 by YJ
YJ replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
It's been like that since 4.01 10/23 nightly build (that's my first experience with Deviation, so can't speak for earlier versions)

Basically if you use standard gui, aileron and elevators are swapped. This can be seen in the mixer page when switching from standard to advanced gui. you have to manually swap ele and ail for the input of the two cyclic mixers

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06 May 2016 04:27 #47858 by yelong98
yelong98 replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
can i swap this two channels in standard mode ? i can not find out where i can change them. In the advanced mode , it can be swaped ,but this gui is too complicated for me .

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06 May 2016 05:11 #47860 by yelong98
yelong98 replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
i'm sure i find the bug of V5.0.0.
i retry V4.0.1 version , this version make the right order of ail and ele channels.
i chose DSM2 protocal to test ,the channel 2 is ail ,at the page of channel monitor ,if i move the ail stick ,i can see the right reaction of channel signal.
But this thing will not happen in V5.0.0 .
So i'm sure there is a bug about swaping ail and ele channels .




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06 May 2016 13:36 - 06 May 2016 13:45 #47873 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
www.deviationtx.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=637
www.deviationtx.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=624
deviationtx.com/forum/3-feedback-questio...andard-gui-120-swash

Edit your mode1l.ini and try swapping Cyclic1<->Cyclic2 on CH1 and CH2 (ELEV and AIL for Devo / S-FHSS protocol)

Note: If you finished creating your heli model within standard mixer GUI you can simply swap over to advanced GUI by selecting "Advanced mixer GUI".
This will "convert" the screen by not loosing your settings as the model.ini files had to be written for advanced settings always.

So everything will be there:
- throttle and pitch curves (3 for f-mode, 1 hold)
- gyro gain
- correct normal/reversed on channels
- F-Mode setup
- D/R (whereas you can do a 2x2 switch D/R / expo setup for 3 D/R modes on 2 switches by using complex mixer switch1 AND switch2 condition)
- collective subtrim / collective +- servo adjust travel (scale +-)

If you convert standard -> advanced model setup you can even just swap Cyclic1<->Cyclic2 for AIL/ELEV channels within your mixer screen without editing the model.ini manually.

If you like to stick to the standard mixer GUI try editing your model1.ini for the XK heli directly.

Thomas
Last Edit: 06 May 2016 13:45 by Thomas.Heiss.

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06 May 2016 14:00 - 06 May 2016 14:12 #47874 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
Last Edit: 06 May 2016 14:12 by Thomas.Heiss.

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07 May 2016 05:03 #47949 by yelong98
yelong98 replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
thanks ,thomas. i can modify model.ini , your information is very useful .

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12 Aug 2016 10:11 #52699 by hongkong
hongkong replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
I´m also new to deviation. I´m using Devo 7E with 5.0.0 and have the same problems.

With my FP CB180z it´s just a matter of swapping the plugs in the RX (ele to ail).
With my MasterCP swapping plugs of course won´t work. And as I found out by research - there is no way in the standard GUI to fix this issue.
So when entering into "advanced" I can fix it by asigning channel 1 to ele and channel 2 to ail (these two chanells are reversed in the stock settings which is clearly a serous bug).
What I also experienced is, that I can swap from standard GUI to Advanced without loosing anything. But there seems to be no way to swap from Advanced to GUI without loosing everything. So the advice to set everything up in Standard GUI and then fix the channel problem in Advanced GUI is only of little help, as all settings are not acessible for any furhter modifications unless you are familiar with the Advanced GUI.

As all modern Helis are FBL or at least 3Servo 120 swash mixing, Deviation is useless for me if this Bug maintains. Yes, an I´m not willing set up my models in Advanced mode, as I´m not willing to re-learn a totally new system.

Question: So changing the ini. file might be the last option. Will it work to change it while staying in Standard GUI anyway?

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12 Aug 2016 21:14 #52708 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
I have not tried myself as I was going the advanced GUI mixer route...

www.deviationtx.com/forum/3-feedback-que...h?limitstart=0#44377

Just try it :-)
As long as you do not change mixer GUI from Standard -> Advanced it will stay in standard mode.

Make a model/ directory or model.ini backup first!

You can check by the transmitter / channel monitor.

For a FBL heli the other solution would be to just omit the 6ch heli standard template and do the channel FBL from scratch manually by hand.
For FBL you do not really need the virtual Cyclic1/2/3 channels - they come into play with e.g CCPM120 mixing.

There is a FBL setup howto on the forum (use google site:deviationtx.com keywords) without the special heli templates.

Personally I love to use the 6ch advanced heli template even for FBL (well it's advanced mixer GUI) as it just sets up some basic stuff which I can use 1:1. I just might need to swap Cyclic1<->Cyclic2 on the first ELEV/AIL channels from time to time. Point. Easy.

There will be coming some mixer code changes (which gone undo before) anyways which would have to be detail-tested with variants of helis before (template versioning thing - see the MantisBT / thread).

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12 Aug 2016 21:56 #52709 by mwm
mwm replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE

hongkong wrote: As all modern Helis are FBL or at least 3Servo 120 swash mixing, Deviation is useless for me if this Bug maintains. Yes, an I´m not willing set up my models in Advanced mode, as I´m not willing to re-learn a totally new system.


Then you're missing out on the best feature of deviation. Having the developers here in the forums, where you can talk to them about features, get test builds, and so on is something you won't get from the big commercial vendors. Some of deviations coolest features are the results of just such conversations.

But the guy who wrote the standard GUI is no longer around, and none of the current developers use it, and are reluctant to work on it since they may not fully understand the effects of a change. IIUC, the bug you're running into now comes from just such an event, but I was only watching so might be wrong. But that's why it doesn't support flight modes, doesn't have an FBL swash setting (and hence is not recommended for use on FBL helis), etc. Lots of things could be done to improve it, but until someone who actually uses it is willing to work on it or do something that shows a commitment to seeing the process through, that's not likely to change.

The standard GUI is in such sad shape that dropping support for it on the 7E has been seriously considered as a means to get the next version of deviation to fit on the 7E, so even if this bug is fixed in 5.1, it might not help your situation.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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12 Aug 2016 21:57 #52710 by hongkong
hongkong replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
Hi Thomas,

will try it out. Fortunately I have two 7E. One with Deviation, one with Devotion. Now it´s vacation time in Germany - I´ll take my standard Radio with me and check it out when I´ll be back.
For sure I will report.

michael

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13 Aug 2016 08:55 #52719 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE

mwm wrote:

hongkong wrote: As all modern Helis are FBL or at least 3Servo 120 swash mixing, Deviation is useless for me if this Bug maintains. Yes, an I´m not willing set up my models in Advanced mode, as I´m not willing to re-learn a totally new system.


Then you're missing out on the best feature of deviation. Having the developers here in the forums, where you can talk to them about features, get test builds, and so on is something you won't get from the big commercial vendors. Some of deviations coolest features are the results of just such conversations.

But the guy who wrote the standard GUI is no longer around...IIUC, the bug you're running into now comes from just such an event...But that's why it doesn't support flight modes, doesn't have an FBL swash setting (and hence is not recommended for use on FBL helis), etc.


Funny, we need to re-start on these topics on almost each new heli thread :)
BTW: I linked SOOO MANY previous heli threads in my opened MantisBT ticket (I updated multiple threads before for current informations).


There is full CCPM (e.g CCPM120) and NONE settings page even in the standard GUI for helis!
The default setting is NONE.

I think we both discussed exactly that point with 6ch standard/advanced heli template (Cyclic1-3) and FBL (NONE) setting in another older thread before. IMHO yes, you could use it (I did come from that route: standard heli GUI -> advanced heli GUI -> FBL/CCPM120 ELEV<->AIL checks and (easy) mods - because of full advanced mixer GUI output channel <-> input control).


I think what Mike (and me one post before) actually meant was, that the "Standard GUI" has no special "FBL" setting which sets up the template/mixer in a very different approach without using the special Cyclic1-3 virtual channels.

Just like how you can manually setup a FBL heli in the advanced GUI mixer mode WITHOUT any 6ch heli template which only uses Cyclic1-3, but of course you could just load the heli template and be almost done without any manual setup.

You can just directly assign for a FBL heli
- the sticks to the output channel
- setup throttle- and pitch curves
- some D/R expo mixers
- do the f-mode / gyro mixer fixed value mapping.

Didn't the standard GUI even support f-mode / gyro setup (like Spektrum Airware)? Would have to re-test.


For this (FBL) you do NOT need any Cyclic1-3 heli templates which are usually used for CCPM flybar mixing, as pointed out several times by Mike in more than one thread.

To further extend the standard heli GUI a developer IMHO would be required to add a special "FBL" option, which just drops the Cyclic1-3 pre-setup template and does the channel mapping / setup directly (as in the FBL heli setup Howto) by itself.


The real problem with the standard GUI vs advanced GUI and heli NONE vs CCPM120 mixing relies in the fact, as pointed already out by hexfet, that some mixer code needs to be changed and be tested to be compatible for:
- ALL kind of heli CCPM scenarios, e.g front/back elevator servo
- NONE (FBL) setting
- there is another 2nd standard mixer code C file which does some things on channel signup (e.g if you convert from advanced -> standard GUI) too, or for 1st time choosing standard in heli type?

I just think that NONE vs CCPM vs FBL will never be 100% compatible "by the same code or template setup" for everything??!
And personally I do think there might be even more than one code place / file to be changed...


If you really like to use a GUI like the Spektrum Airware, go and buy that :-)
If you like limitations, just use Spektrum Airware.
Transmitters like DX8G1 were built to let the user not let do everything he wants :) 2nd Airware further improved in DX6/DX8G2/DX9++ but they have other limitiations (channels, dropping Airware screen / features <DX18/DX9)...

If the (some) code (parts) comes e.g from ER9X - all without any inline / function code comments - what developer, besides hexfet, is that crazy to even try to jump into some code blocks and do some tests? :-)

My suggestion for standard heli GUI and FBL setting is to not use NONE setting but re-engineer a FBL setup which just drops the Cyclic1-3 heli virtual channel mixing approach.


If you like to patch C code or try around just have a look in the previous linked standard mixing GUI thread and MantisBT heli bug id explanations...

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13 Aug 2016 15:54 #52729 by mwm
mwm replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE

Thomas.Heiss wrote: I think what Mike (and me one post before) actually meant was, that the "Standard GUI" has no special "FBL" setting which sets up the template/mixer in a very different approach without using the special Cyclic1-3 virtual channels.


Al most right. What I meant was that there is no "FBL" setting; you just need to know how to use None, because that works. I do agree that such a setting really should turn off those special channels.

Just like how you can manually setup a FBL heli in the advanced GUI mixer mode WITHOUT any 6ch heli template which only uses Cyclic1-3, but of course you could just load the heli template and be almost done without any manual setup.

You can just directly assign for a FBL heli
- the sticks to the output channel
- setup throttle- and pitch curves
- some D/R expo mixers
- do the f-mode / gyro mixer fixed value mapping.

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Didn't the standard GUI even support f-mode / gyro setup (like Spektrum Airware)? Would have to re-test.


The standard GUI has gyro support. This is flexible enough you could use it to control flight modes by setting the switch 0/1/2 values appropriately. However, you can only do one of the two. Proper flight mode support shouldn't for a 2 or 3-way switch should just use -100/0/100, and it'd be nice if there were a dual-switch version so you could use a multiple switches.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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01 Sep 2016 21:59 #53388 by hongkong
hongkong replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE

Thomas.Heiss wrote: If you really like to use a GUI like the Spektrum Airware, go and buy that :-)
If you like limitations, just use Spektrum Airware.
Transmitters like DX8G1 were built to let the user not let do everything he wants :) 2nd Airware further improved in DX6/DX8G2/DX9++ but they have other limitiations (channels, dropping Airware screen / features <DX18/DX9)...


Hi Thomas,

Yes, your right, thats the reason why so many people buy walkera TXs and noone uses HH DXs. :P

But the thing is a little bit more complex.
I like the way the timers work, like the possibilies of sending in different protokolls, like the way of how the deventions can be pluged into the PC, being recognised as a drive.
Like a lot more.
But unfortunately I like to fly more than to spend hours programming new TXs. And unfortunately I´m not that advanced, to need all those possibilities.

So II will indeed stick to my old DX6i instead of selling it. And my Devo10 will stay as it is. My Devo7E with Devention is enough.

Anyway: realy thanx a lot for the time you took to explain how it could work. I honestly appreciate it.
And Yes: Setting everything up in StandardGUI and then switching to Advanced worked. But it´s too much hassle, overall.

michael

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17 Sep 2016 07:32 - 17 Sep 2016 08:33 #53946 by Thomas.Heiss
Thomas.Heiss replied the topic: Anyone find V5.0.0 for d7e mistake AIL and ELE
Standard GUI: not so easy....

Deviation 5.0 as been released: www.deviationtx.com/forum/6-general-disc...eased?start=60#53953

Heli problem / workaround description including link to new "heli summary analysis developer" thread.
Developer thread includes updated heli templates (working for advanced GUI NONE/FBL+CCPM120, standard GUI NONE/FBL on my side - not or only partly CCPM120)

Thomas
Last Edit: 17 Sep 2016 08:33 by Thomas.Heiss.

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