Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!

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20 May 2018 12:36 #69333 by Donthemon
Replied by Donthemon on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Gerry - nice set of instructions! I trialed them out and the Virt channel option worked for what I was trying to do first time! :) :) Of course, as you've already said, this adjusts both surface for each stick input so there is some slight mis-match of total movement that I would normally have taken out with Travel adjust but hey, it's still progress!

One thing I did notice was that when you change the scale values in either of the virtual channels, this not only changes the amount of control surface movement but it also moves the servo centering position (but not the sub-trim value), which seems very odd. However, this is reproducible and not just down to non-centring servos.

I ran your instructions past a friend who is also knocking his brains out trying to understand the programming interface and the attached contains his and my comments. We both now understand a whole lot more than we did, including what VIRT channels can be used for.

You sir, are a star and many thanks!

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20 May 2018 12:37 #69334 by Donthemon
Replied by Donthemon on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
And the updates...!
Attachments:

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20 May 2018 14:05 #69336 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!

Donthemon wrote: Gerry - nice set of instructions! I trialed them out and the Virt channel option worked for what I was trying to do first time! :) :) Of course, as you've already said, this adjusts both surface for each stick input so there is some slight mis-match of total movement that I would normally have taken out with Travel adjust but hey, it's still progress!

One thing I did notice was that when you change the scale values in either of the virtual channels, this not only changes the amount of control surface movement but it also moves the servo centering position (but not the sub-trim value), which seems very odd. However, this is reproducible and not just down to non-centring servos.

I ran your instructions past a friend who is also knocking his brains out trying to understand the programming interface and the attached contains his and my comments. We both now understand a whole lot more than we did, including what VIRT channels can be used for.

You sir, are a star and many thanks!


I use this setup for a cheap foam delta and don't seem to have any of these problems. I get equal travel on both sides.
Double check that scale+ and scale- in the ail and ele channels are the same, mismatch here would cause mismatch of control surface throws.
I tried to duplicate the centering position problem, I could only duplicate it if there was trim set and one of the virt mixer pages has "no trim" set, so one or more of the virt mixer pages has "no trim" set find which one/s and change to "trim". The "no trim" setting tells this mix to ignore any trim set with the trim switch.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)

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20 May 2018 14:45 #69337 by Donthemon
Replied by Donthemon on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Thanks, you are indeed correct re. 'No trim' versus 'Trim'. I noticed that if you are on a field like Trim that can be changed with a long press, if you then save a mix change with a long press, this can also change that field value which is then saved if you do another save - quite a feature!
I'm taking a delta and a flying wing for some DLGing tomorrow so hopefully the new mixes with your Virt Channel magic will now do the business! :-)

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21 May 2018 02:29 - 21 May 2018 02:30 #69345 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Notes regarding tutorial questions.
"Does ‘Expo to preference’ indicate EXPO curve of YOUR preference?" YES
A curve type of "Expo" with a setting of "0" will be the same as a curve type of 1 to 1 (linear) in this instance. Positive expo will give finer control around mid stick and negative expo will give a more aggressive response around mid stick.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)
Last edit: 21 May 2018 02:30 by Gerry.

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21 May 2018 15:13 #69355 by Donthemon
Replied by Donthemon on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Gerry - thanks for that. I tend not to use Expo as I prefer a linear response across the full movement, but useful to know.

I took a new Delta and flying wing for some trimming today and your mix worked just great on both. As you say, it is so much easier just having to adjust the AIL/ELE sub-trim and the Virt1 & 2 travel amounts, rather than every page of every mix.

Many thanks

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22 May 2018 05:01 #69363 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Donthemon you're welcome. I'm glad it all worked for you and you had a successful day flying.

Thanks for your comments in the tutorial as well. I have made some changes with your comments in mind and some other changes I thought needed doing.
I think writing this tutorial was as difficult or more so than figuring out the programming in the first place.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)

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22 May 2018 05:20 #69364 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Attached is the revised delta/flying wing programming tutorial with the two model ini's the tutorial is based on.

The model ini's were made with Devo 7e with extra switches and frsky protocol set.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)
Attachments:

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02 Sep 2018 00:41 #70611 by old4570
Replied by old4570 on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Elevon Mix On Deviation
Ail- Complex - 2 mixes - Switch = None Mux = Replace Source = Ele . . . Page 2 . . .Mux = Add Source = !Ail
Ele - Complex - 2 mixes - Switch= None Mux = Replace Source = Ail . . . Page 2 . . .Mux = Add Source = Ele

So how do you add D/R ?

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02 Sep 2018 04:27 #70613 by old4570
Replied by old4570 on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Elevon with D/R

SW D1 ( Position ) Set your scale ( RATE )
SW D2 ( Position ) Set your scale ( RATE )

Aileron - Complex - 4 mixes
Page 1 - Switch = SW D1 - Mux = Replace Source = Ele - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 2 - Switch = SW D1 - Mux = Add Source = !Ail - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 3 - Switch = SW D2 - Mux = Replace Source = Ele - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 4 - Switch = SW D2 - Mux = Add Source = !Ail - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?

Elevator - Complex - 4 mixes
Page 1 - Switch = SW D1 - Mux = Replace Source = Ail - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 2 - Switch = SW D1 - Mux = Add Source = Ele - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 3 - Switch = SW D2 - Mux = Replace Source = Ail - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?
Page 4 - Switch = SW D2 - Mux = Add Source = Ele - Curve = 1 to 1 - Scale ?

So you go to mixing ...
Ail ..
Chose Complex for your mix
Then you will be setting up either 4 mixes or 6 mixes depending on the switch you want to use ( 2 position / 3 position )
Then just follow the example I have given you ...

My transmitter is the Jumper T8SG Lite , and my first switch position ( 3 position switch ) is my safety ( Throttle cut )
And as I bring the switch to the middle position ( SW D1 ) I have 50% rates ...
In the SW D2 ( lowest ) position I have 100% rates ..
Hope this helps ...

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02 Sep 2018 06:03 #70615 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
That is the same DR programming method as shown in the example in the second post of this topic by Vlad_vy and one of my earlier posts and although it works when changes need to be made there are a lot of places to make changes which can easily lead to mistakes. With this method I'm not sure if you can separate the ele and ail rates to separate switches. I see the T8SG lite only has two switches (like 7e) but you could program your throttle or rudder trim switch to be another 2 or three position switch as they are not used for a flying wing config.

Using the virtual channels example described a couple posts above you will find is a much better solution for dual rates on this type of mixing. Once set up using virtual channels changes only need to be made in one place and you can put ele rates on one switch and ail rates on another switch easily.
Me personally, I never ever put any other function on the throttle hold switch and I always use the leftmost switch for throttle hold.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)

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02 Sep 2018 14:54 #70617 by old4570
Replied by old4570 on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
I don't want to install files VIA Computer ..
Just want to do the settings in the Tx .

I may give the virtual channel another go , geez ! And I had to work it out for myself .
I had a look at the ini file and it made no sense to me ..
So did it the hard way .

Found that other file with instructions - thanks .. ( Virtual channels ) I may give that a try !
Switch ? Why is it hard to pick a switch ?

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03 Sep 2018 00:33 #70618 by Gerry
Replied by Gerry on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
I am not suggesting that you install anyone's ini VIA the PC.
Kudos to you for figuring out how to do the mixing, it was one of the trickier mixes for me to figure out when I was learning Deviation.

Devo 7e A7105 NRF24L01 CC2500 2x3 way & voice, Devo 12e 4 in 1 & voice.
FFS (Forever Fixing Stuff)

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03 Sep 2018 01:46 #70619 by old4570
Replied by old4570 on topic Simple Elevons mix with dual rate please!!
Deviation - Got to look at it from a computer programming mind set ...
So if you approach it like programming software , then I guess it makes some sense .

I find Deviation interesting , but only for so long and then it just becomes tedious if not a little painful .
All this time to figure out how to do something , could be spent elsewhere = Like maybe flying ?

I am happy I worked it out , but that's about 5 hours to do dual rates .. ( 5 hours )
Don't want to apple / orange this , but using the other OS , it's a 5 minute job .

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