Devo 12s 3in1 / 4in1 RF module neat installation.

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27 Feb 2016 00:09 - 27 Feb 2016 00:10 #43727 by dc59

blackmoon wrote: I just discovered this thread, very nice find! The 3-1 is what I aim for in a 6s.f

dc59 is it working on the devo 10 with a sepcial build ? Or is it the latest nightly ?

Since the 10,8 and 6s share the same cpu, could you please share the connections pins and hardware.ini ?

Thank you


Yes, I use latest nightly for test (v4.0.1-4fc5268 / 2016-02-22)

Some component of 3-in-1 module has quailty issue,it will take around one week for next batch component.


EDIT: It seems range is pretty small for the 4-1 [Google translated]


I have discussed about this with TaoBao seller, he told me it's a test method difference , control range should be more lager then he announced , duo to environmental limitation, but we need to confirm it ourselves! :S
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 00:10 by dc59.

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27 Feb 2016 00:16 - 27 Feb 2016 00:31 #43728 by blackmoon
I'm designing a daughter board for the 4-1 module, same aTtyni24 that PB used in the MM, so code can be reused. The NRF_CE signal was eliminated because the 4-1 module doesn't use it ( not broken out ) the pin assigned to that signal was reassigned to the PE1 antenna select pin another pin is used for PE2.

Could some gifted one strip the NRF_CE portion and add antenna selection in the ATtyni code ?

dc59 could you please give me the connections pitch of the 4-1 module ?

I have discussed about this with TaoBao seller, he told me it's a test method difference , control range should be more lager then he announced , duo to environmental limitation, but we need to confirm it ourselves!

I intend to add this to my 6S in lieu of the CYRF module (granted some wires should be soldered to the board as they are on the MM that PB done). Furthermore at 100-150 meters I can't see my planes (big glasses :p) so range is pretty good for me as I tend to fly closer.

Schematic work in progress.
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Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 00:31 by blackmoon.

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27 Feb 2016 00:52 #43730 by dc59

RedSleds wrote: Range of each???


I did a brief range test indoor, all power output 3mw, test platform
DEVO 8S with CC2500 & nRF24L01+
DEVO 7E with A7105 & nRF24L01+
DEVO 10 with 3-in-1 module

I put all TX at 1st floor front of my house,and up stair to 3rd floor and see when revceiver lost signal.

Test 1 : nRF24L01 / JJ1000 / V2x2
DEVO 8S : 2.5F lost signal
DEVO 10 : 2.5F lost signal

Test 2 : CC2500 / Skyartec Wasp nano CP heli / Skyartec
DEVO 8S : 2.5F lost signal
DEVO 10 : 0.5F lost signal ===> big problem

Test 3 : A7105 / Nihui U807 quad / Flysky-V6x6
DEVO 7E : 2.5F lost signal
DEVO 10 : 2.5F lost signal

I am not sure is it a fair comparison or not , but I think CC2500 on 3-in-1 module got problem,
I will contact with seller.

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27 Feb 2016 01:00 - 27 Feb 2016 01:03 #43731 by dc59

blackmoon wrote: dc59 could you please give me the connections pitch of the 4-1 module ?


I measured the connection pitch of 4-in-1 module , it's 2mm pitch!

It's really a good news to know that you'er working on this. :)

If you need anything I can help,please let me know.

EDIT: The TaoBao seller also planed to design a daughter board(or mother board??) for 4-in-1 module,
then it will be almost same as PB's design.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 01:03 by dc59.

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27 Feb 2016 01:05 #43733 by mwm

blackmoon wrote: I intend to add this to my 6S in lieu of the CYRF module (granted some wires should be soldered to the board as they are on the MM that PB done). Furthermore at 100-150 meters I can't see my planes (big glasses :p) so range is pretty good for me as I tend to fly closer.


Why use the 4-1 in lieu of the CYRF module instead of just adding the 3-1? I'm got 3 stand-alone modules I expect to get into my 6S as is.

The connection for the third module is the 3-pin header under the CYRF module, using either pin C9 or C10. This does mean you can only add one extra 2-way switch, not a 3-way switch or two 2-way switches.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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27 Feb 2016 01:05 - 27 Feb 2016 01:11 #43734 by blackmoon
Yes I forgot I need the length and the width of the module, to make the kicad module.

Thank you for the pads pitch.

I intend to do also the 3-1 board, just began with the 4-1, as I was thinking as space is scarce why not go the full house and replace the Cyrf module all together.

But seeing the range test performed by dc59, It's maybe better to keep the original CYRF.

So dc59 could you please give me for both modules :

Length x width+ connection pitch for he 3-1 (I would assume it's 2mm to)
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 01:11 by blackmoon.

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27 Feb 2016 01:15 - 27 Feb 2016 01:18 #43736 by blackmoon
One should not forget that the board need to be same size as the module so fitting it in the 7E or 6S with the original CYRF in place would be a challenge, or maybe not, depends of the module size. And as it is the board is 99% code compatible with PB MultiModule code, only need the antenna selection code and strip the NRF_CE routines.

If I have time to work on it this weekend they will be ready by Monday.

It's a shame range is so bad, but a outdoor test should be performed at 100mw to see how it goes.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 01:18 by blackmoon.

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27 Feb 2016 01:24 - 27 Feb 2016 01:28 #43738 by dc59

blackmoon wrote: Yes I forgot I need the length and the width of the module, to make the kicad module.

Thank you for the pads pitch.

I intend to do also the 3-1 board, just began with the 4-1, as I was thinking as space is scarce why not go the full house and replace the Cyrf module all together.

But seeing the range test performed by dc59, It's maybe better to keep the original CYRF.

So dc59 could you please give me for both modules :

Length x width+ connection pitch for he 3-1 (I would assume it's 2mm to)


Board size of 4-in-1 module= 25.98mm x 33.99mm (should be 26x34 ?)
The 3-in-1 board has been installed in my 10 , I will measure it later today(I need to go out with my family now,sorry!)
Correct ! 3-in-1 connection pitch is also 2mm.

EDIT : I can bind to Frsky D4R-ii receiver and get telemetry data from receiver, but it still has short range.

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Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 01:28 by dc59.

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27 Feb 2016 01:45 - 27 Feb 2016 01:47 #43740 by blackmoon
Family first :D

And the protocol that I've the most interest in...tadam.. Frsky (life sucks!)

Time to hit the sack for me gn Gents!
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 01:47 by blackmoon.

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27 Feb 2016 09:54 #43760 by TomPeer

dc59 wrote:

TheSFReader wrote: Hi, I don't get how you connect the 3 CS ? are 3 pins available on a Devo 10 ?
Just finished yesterday the install of an NRF module on my brand new Devo 7e, and perhaps would jump on an 3in 1 / 4 in one as a next step..., and don't get how you'd choose with only 2 "csel" pins (don't see any inverter there...)


B7 pin is available for this, and it can be solder wire by most users.






Hardware.ini

enable-cyrf6936 = B12
has_pa-cyrf6936 = 1
enable-a7105 = A13
has_pa-a7105 = 1
enable-cc2500 = A14
has_pa-cc2500 = 1
enable-nrf24l01 = B7
has_pa-nrf24l01 = 1


Does this mean you can solder in a third module (3 extra modules) without the multi module?

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27 Feb 2016 10:27 #43762 by dc59
@blackmoon

3-in-1 module board : 22mm x39mm

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27 Feb 2016 10:29 - 27 Feb 2016 10:29 #43763 by dc59

TomPeer wrote: Does this mean you can solder in a third module (3 extra modules) without the multi module?


Yes, it is! use B7 pin to be third chip select.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 10:29 by dc59.

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27 Feb 2016 10:55 #43765 by TomPeer
thanks, i will try that.

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27 Feb 2016 12:29 #43769 by dc59
Update 3in1 module CC2500 test result, I made a mistake for Frsky D4R-II test, I used a 1S battery as power.
I connect a ESC as D4R-II power, it can reach almost 3rd floor @ 3mW !
And I find a Skyartec mini Extra 300 plane receiver(AP301), 3in1 CC2500 can get almost 2.5 floor , just 2~3 step low than DEVO8S+CC2500 ,
but with Wasp nano CP heli it still has big difference between 3in1+DEVO10 and CC2500+DEVO8S.
The baseline DEVO10 + RX1002 can get 2.5 floor @ 3mW for reference.

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27 Feb 2016 17:08 #43775 by blackmoon
Does the B7 trick work also on the Devo7E ?

@dc59 thank you for the 3-1 size.

After some taught, and seeing that you can use 3 modules with the latest nightlies. Is it really necessary to do a MM daughter board for the 3-1 module ? Unless it doesn't work with the 7E and then it would be logical to do it.

Because on the 8,10,6S you still need to solder 8 wires because you need the CYRF to stay in place.

Does anyone have a picture with all the signals on the 10 pins connector where the standard CYRF module is plugged in ?

On dc59 picture I already see MOSI,MISO,SCK, I need the other ones to make a drop in board with the 4-1, the A13,14 and B7 still need to be soldered.

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27 Feb 2016 17:13 #43776 by TheSFReader
Replied by TheSFReader on topic Devo 12s 3in1 / 4in1 RF module neat installation.

blackmoon wrote: Does the B7 trick work also on the Devo7E ? .

And if it does, any picture of its position on the board?

Thanks!

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27 Feb 2016 17:56 - 27 Feb 2016 18:01 #43777 by blackmoon

dc59 wrote: @blackmoon

3-in-1 module board : 22mm x39mm


After some more taught :D

There is no need for a daughter board for the 3-1 it will fit in all the transmitters without issues. Only if the 7E can't use B7 will I do a MM daughter board for the 3-1.

Height wires to solder is no big deal, lets "kiss" it !

As for the 4-1 I seem to remember that the voltage on the connector isn't 3.3V but 5V needed for the Walkera CYRF, so this defeats the plugable MM approach since I would need to add a voltage regulator on the daughter board to satisfy the 4-1 module (3.3v).

Without a voltage reg, one should still need to solder four wires A13, A14, B7 and VDD (3.3v), if a plugable MM was done, so why not go and solder the last four.

Once again Mike, you foresaw it. And I think the 3-1 is the best approach for all the devo transmitters.

I'll buy one for my 6S when they come in stock again, and if range is good with the CC2500, if not I'll stick with the last Skyartec module that I have.

I can still do the board if someone sees a need to it. But I don't see it anymore.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 18:01 by blackmoon.

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27 Feb 2016 23:19 - 27 Feb 2016 23:21 #43797 by dc59
@blackmoon

B7 can't be use for #3 RF chip, because it's already used for "Button Matrix Col 3".
All DEVO hardware connection information can be found HERE
and you can read mwm's relative post HERE

If you have good soldering skill, you can install 3-1in-1 module on any DEVO TX without a daughter board I think.

@TheSFReader
The TaoBao seller recommend A13 as #3 RF chip selection, but it's quite difficult to solder a AWG30 wire to MCU pin.
you can find post and picture HERE .
Last edit: 27 Feb 2016 23:21 by dc59.

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28 Feb 2016 00:07 - 28 Feb 2016 00:10 #43801 by mwm

blackmoon wrote: Does the B7 trick work also on the Devo7E ?


No, it's unused on the 10 - and has a pad, even. it's used on the 7E. You need to find a different pin for that transmitter. Options for the 7E (from the PB's hardware description) are A4 (20), A8 (41), A15 (50), B3 (55), B4 (56), B9 (62), and C12 (53). The GPIO's for C13, C14, C15, D0 and D1 (2-6) are also unused, but the pins are used for clock related things, so may not be available. I can check the sources if anyone is really interested in trying those.

The next step is checking the hardware to see if those CPU pins (number in parens aboove) are connected to a pad you can solder to. I suspect not, as otherwise the docs on the board would recommend using it rather than soldering to the mcu pin directly. This is another case where the low-end CPU on the 7E takes a hit. It's only got 2/3rd the of the pins on the CPU in the other Devo Tx's, so is much less likely to have one free and exposed on a solder pad.

As noted below, for the 6 pins C9 and C10 are unused and exposed on pads beneath the CYRF. I'm in the middle of making sure that will work. If someone is interested in one of the other documented transmitters, I'd be more than happy to provide a list of pins to check on them as well.

An interesting - an possibly easy, but beyond me - hack would be a board that mounts "over" the CPU chip, using POGO pins to connect to each of the unused pins on the MCU and providing a through hole or pin to connect things to on it. That way, you could add more RF modules to any of them, as well as switches and possibly even analog inputs (have to see if any of those pins are usable for analog input).

Once we confirm these things things work, we should add a page to the wiki docs on adding a third module to each of these. And possibly a new forum thread on the topic of adding a third module sans the MM. It's a pretty common request.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.
Last edit: 28 Feb 2016 00:10 by mwm.

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28 Feb 2016 00:27 #43805 by TomPeer
what about the 8s, I don't use this tx as much as the 10, so i would like to try at the 8s first.

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