Blade 200QX

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15 Jul 2014 15:38 #24596 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote: Mix control how the stagility mode works:
0 -> Normal, it's always in the "blue" stability mode.
1 -> Low stagility: Around 90% Ail or Ele (both is more sensitive) it kicks the quad into agility mode.
2 -> High stagility: As above, but transitions around 60%.

i tried your file with my 200qx and stagility did not work fmod0 was low angle stability fmod1 was high angle and fmod2 was agility


Which MIX settings did you try? And did you have low rates enabled? This won't work unless the AIL & ELE outputs can go to 100.

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15 Jul 2014 17:53 #24598 by Alexfmx
Replied by Alexfmx on topic Blade 200QX
I have an devo 7e with 2x2 switchmod i'm trying to get to work with the Blade 200qx. I've taken the modelfile from the 350qx in this thread and modified the safe value to -150, with my hold switch i can turn on the motors and with the fmod i can change it to acro mod (red light).

Does anyone know how i can create a switch for higher rates in the normal mode (green mode)? any help would be very appreciated.

Alex

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15 Jul 2014 18:54 #24600 by Alexfmx
Replied by Alexfmx on topic Blade 200QX
Update! i played around with mixer and what i think is switch assignment and managed to get blue mode (high rates) and acro mode on SW A0 and SW A1 and now nothing on FMOD switch (before acro mode was on fmod switch).

What i want is to have low rates (green light) and hi rates (blue light) on SW A0 and SW A1 and then have acro mode on Fmod switch.
I'll attach my model file and if anyone knows how to set it up plz help.

Alex
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15 Jul 2014 21:36 #24605 by timmyd463229
Replied by timmyd463229 on topic Blade 200QX

mwm wrote:

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote: Mix control how the stagility mode works:
0 -> Normal, it's always in the "blue" stability mode.
1 -> Low stagility: Around 90% Ail or Ele (both is more sensitive) it kicks the quad into agility mode.
2 -> High stagility: As above, but transitions around 60%.

i tried your file with my 200qx and stagility did not work fmod0 was low angle stability fmod1 was high angle and fmod2 was agility


Which MIX settings did you try? And did you have low rates enabled? This won't work unless the AIL & ELE outputs can go to 100.

i don't understand what u mean which mix settings I just left everything the wat it was in the model file and I tried the expo on 100% and 70% but when I pushed ele or ail full stick it did not switch to agility and when in fmod 2 it was in agility the whole time and beeped .....maybe because I had it in throttle hold it did not work?

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15 Jul 2014 21:46 #24607 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote:

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote: Mix control how the stagility mode works:
0 -> Normal, it's always in the "blue" stability mode.
1 -> Low stagility: Around 90% Ail or Ele (both is more sensitive) it kicks the quad into agility mode.
2 -> High stagility: As above, but transitions around 60%.

i tried your file with my 200qx and stagility did not work fmod0 was low angle stability fmod1 was high angle and fmod2 was agility


Which MIX settings did you try? And did you have low rates enabled? This won't work unless the AIL & ELE outputs can go to 100.

i don't understand what u mean which mix settings I just left everything the wat it was in the model file and I tried the expo on 100% and 70% but when I pushed ele or ail full stick it did not switch to agility and when in fmod 2 it was in agility the whole time and beeped .....maybe because I had it in throttle hold it did not work?


No, throttle hold doesn't change anything. However, "stagility" mode is controlled by the Mix switch. When it's 0 (i.e. - up) you get the stock behavior. When it's 1 the quad should switch to agility mode when the cyclics are near max throw, and when MIX is 2 then the quad switches to agility mode when the cyclic controls are a bit beyond halfway to the edge. This only works when you are in FMODE 1 (blue light), not in FMODE 0 (green light).

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15 Jul 2014 21:53 #24608 by timmyd463229
Replied by timmyd463229 on topic Blade 200QX

mwm wrote:

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote:

timmyd463229 wrote:

mwm wrote: Mix control how the stagility mode works:
0 -> Normal, it's always in the "blue" stability mode.
1 -> Low stagility: Around 90% Ail or Ele (both is more sensitive) it kicks the quad into agility mode.
2 -> High stagility: As above, but transitions around 60%.

i tried your file with my 200qx and stagility did not work fmod0 was low angle stability fmod1 was high angle and fmod2 was agility


Which MIX settings did you try? And did you have low rates enabled? This won't work unless the AIL & ELE outputs can go to 100.

i don't understand what u mean which mix settings I just left everything the wat it was in the model file and I tried the expo on 100% and 70% but when I pushed ele or ail full stick it did not switch to agility and when in fmod 2 it was in agility the whole time and beeped .....maybe because I had it in throttle hold it did not work?


No, throttle hold doesn't change anything. However, "stagility" mode is controlled by the Mix switch. When it's 0 (i.e. - up) you get the stock behavior. When it's 1 the quad should switch to agility mode when the cyclics are near max throw, and when MIX is 2 then the quad switches to agility mode when the cyclic controls are a bit beyond halfway to the edge. This only works when you are in FMODE 1 (blue light), not in FMODE 0 (green light).

o you mean I have to move the mix switch? I did not try that

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15 Jul 2014 22:03 #24609 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

timmyd463229 wrote: o you mean I have to move the mix switch? I did not try that


Yes, put it in FMODE 1 (blue light), then try moving the MIX switch (the only one unused on my 350, which will also get this) to 1, try it, and then move it to 2 and try again. Mix 1 should work, but Mix 2 requires less cyclic stick input to switch.

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15 Jul 2014 22:16 - 15 Jul 2014 22:59 #24610 by timmyd463229
Replied by timmyd463229 on topic Blade 200QX

mwm wrote:

timmyd463229 wrote: o you mean I have to move the mix switch? I did not try that


Yes, put it in FMODE 1 (blue light), then try moving the MIX switch (the only one unused on my 350, which will also get this) to 1, try it, and then move it to 2 and try again. Mix 1 should work, but Mix 2 requires less cyclic stick input to switch.

OK I'll try it ...do these make for tight flips ..I can do really tight flips but I don't fly around in agility because I'm scared to lose control so maybe this will help me learn to control it better then I won't need stability....o and does regular agility work in fmod 2? Is the type heli or across I'm asking cause I was messing with the icon and I switched the type which I'm assuming is heli but wanted to make sure
Last edit: 15 Jul 2014 22:59 by timmyd463229.

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16 Jul 2014 01:42 #24613 by devong67
Replied by devong67 on topic Blade 200QX
This is the model config that I am using on my DEVO 10 for the 200qx. It uses FMODE to switch between the modes and the ELEV DR switch to turn on stagility in the green (FMODE 0) and blue (FMODE 1) modes and does nothing in FMODE 2 mode and this is already agility. You can adjust the offset in the Virt4 mixer to change where it switches over. Pages 1 and 2 for FMODE0 and Pages 3 and 4 for FMODE 1.

AILE DR turns on the dual rates for both ELE and AIL (AILE DR 1 is 70, AILE DR 0 is 100).

I'm still working on tis but it does work. Unfortunately, I am probably going to need a new frame for my quad until I get the hang of getting used to flipping. It is a quick little bugger! :)

Also, I have seen sometimes that after a flip the quad is not as 'stable' as it should be. This has been somewhat reported by a few people on the RCGroups forum. I am not sure what is causing this but it may be the battery shifting around in the compartment and throwing off the balance of the quad - at least that is my current theory. Just wanted anyone who is using stagility with this quad to be aware of this possibility.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Devon
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16 Jul 2014 14:09 #24617 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

timmyd463229 wrote: ]OK I'll try it ...do these make for tight flips ..I can do really tight flips but I don't fly around in agility because I'm scared to lose control so maybe this will help me learn to control it better then I won't need stability....o and does regular agility work in fmod 2? Is the type heli or across I'm asking cause I was messing with the icon and I switched the type which I'm assuming is heli but wanted to make sure


As I said, I haven't had a chance to fly this yet :-(, so I don't know if it does tight flips. That's why there are two different behaviors on MIX1 and MIX2. FMODE0 and FMODE2 should behave exactly as before. Stagility in FOMDE2 wouldn't do anything. I decided that FMODE0 wouldn't be all that useful, but if you want it, let me know. I've figured out how to do a more flexible version, and can make it work on both FMODE0 and FMODE1 or only on FMODE1 pretty easily.

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17 Jul 2014 22:27 - 17 Jul 2014 22:27 #24659 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX
Here's a new version of my 200QX, with a much better stagility mode implementation. It may even fix the issues with the quad not being as stable after doing flips in the other modes

Usage change: instead of using the MIX switch to enable stagility mode, the AUX5 dial (next to the FMODE switch) is used to control when it switches from high angle stability to agility mode. When at -100 (all the way counterclockwise), it won't switch at all. After my first serious crash pf the 200QX caused by it switching to agility unexpectedly while landing, I want this. When at 100, it pretty much goes to agility instantly when you start giving it some cyclic control. This is very much like flying in agility mode, except with auto-level when you let go of the sticks. Give it just a bit of a clockwise twist, and it's like flying one of the toy quads with the flip button on: it'll fly nice and stable until you push a cyclic control to full, and then it flips on you.

The difference is that, rather than mixing the cyclics into channel five like the original, the Spektrum versions and others I've looked at, it uses a virtual channel that subtracts the largest cyclic from the AUX5 setting, and uses the result as a switch to control agility mode over and above the FMODE switch. This way the FC won't be getting between signal values as it does with the others. Like I said, this may fix the issues with stability, but I haven't experienced them, so can't say for sure.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.
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Last edit: 17 Jul 2014 22:27 by mwm. Reason: Add .ini file

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18 Jul 2014 22:28 #24682 by timmyd463229
Replied by timmyd463229 on topic Blade 200QX

mwm wrote: Here's a new version of my 200QX, with a much better stagility mode implementation. It may even fix the issues with the quad not being as stable after doing flips in the other modes

Usage change: instead of using the MIX switch to enable stagility mode, the AUX5 dial (next to the FMODE switch) is used to control when it switches from high angle stability to agility mode. When at -100 (all the way counterclockwise), it won't switch at all. After my first serious crash pf the 200QX caused by it switching to agility unexpectedly while landing, I want this. When at 100, it pretty much goes to agility instantly when you start giving it some cyclic control. This is very much like flying in agility mode, except with auto-level when you let go of the sticks. Give it just a bit of a clockwise twist, and it's like flying one of the toy quads with the flip button on: it'll fly nice and stable until you push a cyclic control to full, and then it flips on you.

The difference is that, rather than mixing the cyclics into channel five like the original, the Spektrum versions and others I've looked at, it uses a virtual channel that subtracts the largest cyclic from the AUX5 setting, and uses the result as a switch to control agility mode over and above the FMODE switch. This way the FC won't be getting between signal values as it does with the others. Like I said, this may fix the issues with stability, but I haven't experienced them, so can't say for sure.

im going to give this one a try and see if the switch between modes is less abrupt

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20 Jul 2014 02:39 #24701 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX
I've written a blog entry explaining how my version works, including a video showing the 200 QX switching modes based on the cyclic inputs.

Having had a chance to put a few batteries through it with this mod in place, I LOVE it. Anyone know who invented stagility mode? I'd like to thank them!

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25 Jul 2014 21:00 #24798 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX
Here's an updated version of the .ini I've been using for the 200 QX that turns GEAR1 into a "panic switch": sets both cyclics to no input and switches to low angle stability mode. Works fine, but is mostly there in case I forget and try and hit that after flying a 200 SR X or 350 QX....

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26 Jul 2014 17:15 #24813 by Torch
Replied by Torch on topic Blade 200QX
Flying in agility mode need to adjust D/R to 90 with 30 expo how to do it in mixer?

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26 Jul 2014 17:29 #24814 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

Torch wrote: Flying in agility mode need to adjust D/R to 90 with 30 expo how to do it in mixer?


Depends on what's already on the channel. For most of them, you can use an Expo&DR mix, set the "mid-rate" switch to the same switch you use to enable agility mode, click on "mid-rate" to unlink it, then select EXPO, click on that to set the expo rate to 30 and save, then set the scale to 90 and save. If you've already got two rates, use the third Expo&DR rate.

If you've got a complex mix, add a mixer enabled by that switch and set the expo and scale as above. For the panic switch version, change it to complex (hmm - I didn't try the panic switch in low rates!) and add this mixer before the last one.

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28 Jul 2014 01:25 #24859 by Torch
Replied by Torch on topic Blade 200QX
Can we get 200qx model using standard settings? It would be much easier to adjust dual rate and expo

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28 Jul 2014 22:31 #24879 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

Torch wrote: Can we get 200qx model using standard settings? It would be much easier to adjust dual rate and expo


Not with a switch to initialize the FC, stagility mode or a panic switch, at least not according to my reading of the manual. There doesn't seem to be any way to use virtual channels, or use channels as switches at all. Since I use deviationTx to avoid the limitations of the proprietary software the standard GUI is copied from, so have never actually used the standard GUI.

With that out of the way, you want a five channel radio, set the "GYRO" to channel 5, with values of 0, 50 and 100. You may need to invert it to get the flight mode behavior you want.

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10 Aug 2014 21:12 - 17 Aug 2014 20:48 #25127 by LittleMonkey
Replied by LittleMonkey on topic Blade 200QX
My current DEVO 8S configuration file using transparent Blade200qx icon :

File Attachment:

File Name: modelBlade200QX.ini
File Size:4 KB

warning : Do not use this configuration in 3D mode
cause : Throttle cut security feature is in conflict with throttle minimal at stick center (in 3D mode).

Configuration includes :
  • Throttle cut security with minimum throttle level
  • Throttle adjustment with elevator and aileron
  • Stagility <=> Agility commutation depending on elevator and aileron input.

1) Throttle cut security
Throttle cut is still controlled by RUDD D/R = 0.
But that only works if throttle channel is below -93%.
Else throttle is not affected by that swich (as long as it stays over -93%).
So if you switch RUDD D/R to 0 by error, you can reset it to 1 without consequences on the flight.
(check VIRT1 and VIRT3 mix page 3 to adjust the "-93%" security value)


2) Throttle adjustment with elevator and aileron

Throttle ouput channel is a combination of :
  • The throttle input stick (expo 40)
  • Throttle addition depending on aileron and elevator position.

That helps to keeps altitude when the quad takes angle.

3) Stagility <=> Agility commutation depending on elevator and aileron input.

Depending on FMODE and MIX switch position, the quad will go from stagility to agility, and from agility back to stagility when you increase/decrease angle on AIL and ELEV.
That is controlled by deadband functions, so it should avoid unwanted repeatitive mode commutations. ;)
(change offsets in VIRT4 mix page 1,2 and 3 to adjust the AIL and ELEV angle that make it move to agility mode.)

Have fun ;)

__________________________________

[Edit] 11-08-2014 :
... adjusted MIX 1 offset for FMODE2,
... removed automatic throttle addition with ELEV and AIL in FMODE2
__________________________________

[Edit] 12-08-2014 :
... increased ELEV and AIL expo in FMODE2 for smoother agility to stability switching in MIX=1.
__________________________________

[Edit] 13-08-2014 :
... reduced ELEV and AIL expo back to expo60 in FMODE2.
... created a separated deadband curve for FMODE2 and MIX=1 from MIX=0. That way the stability to agility limit can easier be ajusted, without having to use a lot of expo.
... right sub trim button is used to create a +/- 10 offset (with 0.1 resolution) on mode channel. => can be used to change the stability / agility limit during the flight. (usefull for FMODE2, MIX=1).

__________________________________

[Edit] 17-08-2014 :
... control AIL and ELEV channel with 2 virtual channels to remove deadband at stick center in agility mode by adding a min/max offset curve.


+ =



File Attachment:

File Name: modelBlade...2014.ini
File Size:8 KB
Attachments:
Last edit: 17 Aug 2014 20:48 by LittleMonkey.

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11 Aug 2014 06:07 #25133 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic Blade 200QX

LittleMonkey wrote: 3) Stagility <=> Agility commutation depending on elevator and aileron input.

Depending on FMODE and MIX switch position, the quad will go from stagility to agility, and from agility back to stagility when you increase/decrease angle on AIL and ELEV.
That is controlled by deadband functions, so it should avoid unwanted repeatitive mode commutations. ;)
(change offsets in VIRT4 mix page 1,2 and 3 to adjust the AIL and ELEV angle that make it move to agility mode.)


Do you mean "stability" here, and not "stagility"? Or is this for the new 3d modes, so you're changing between "3d stability" and "3d stagility"?

In any case, you might want to look at my "dialable stagility" mix above. Instead of adjusting the mix, I pull the value off one of the analog inputs on the Devo 10 (or 12), allowing for adjusting it in flight. This also means I don't need a mode where it's disabled, as I just turn it all the way down. For the 8, you might be able to use one of the extra trims to do that.

LittleMonkey wrote: 1) Throttle cut security
Throttle cut is still controlled by RUDD D/R = 0.
But that only works if throttle channel is below -93%.
Else throttle is not affected by that swich (as long as it stays over -93%).

Have fun ;)


But stay safe. And this is the one I really wanted to talk about.

I understand why you'd want to do this - the first bad crash on my 350QX. came when I fat-thumbed the throttle cut at a couple of hundred feet up over concrete :-(. And I've done it at low altitude a couple of times on the 200QX. But I still think it may be a bad idea. Depending on what, where, how you fly and what you're planning on flying, you could make things less safe or develop bad habits.

The problem is that "throttle cut" is also the "oh shit I've lost it and it's going to crash minimize the damage" switch. The engine is the primary source of energy in the crash that you can control. By cutting it, you're cutting down the energy going into the crash, which cuts down on the damage done to your aircraft and whatever (or whoever!) you hit.

Adding another action to cutting the throttle means you're increasing the time it takes to do so, meaning you're increasing the chances of crashing with the throttle still on. This makes things less safe.

Sure, this can become nearly habitual, but that has it's own risks. If you fly CP helis - or are flying the 200QX in the new 3d modes - then lowering the throttle to < 93% actually increases the engine output to near max, which is exactly the wrong thing to do when you're about to crash. This also removes the security, as if you accidentally hit the throttle cut while punching out inverted, you'll still shut the engine down! I can't think of a worse time to do that.

Again, it really depends on you and your flying conditions, but I wanted people to be aware of these issues.

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