C-17 Transport

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11 Apr 2019 14:05 - 11 Apr 2019 14:06 #73814 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
Ok, if that's an old 3-in-1 that's not surprising, they're not using actual nrf24l01+ (si24r1 instead) and they don't work well with xn297l @ 250 kbps emulation (what GD00X uses).
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 14:06 by goebish.

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11 Apr 2019 14:33 #73815 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
Hmmm... I didn't know old 3in1 could be a problem for this case... I missed it if it is written somewhere...

Problem is, even my "second version" 4in1 doesn't bind either. It is not from the first batch that had LNA problem, its from a newer batch without that problem, still doesn't bind.

From all the DEVOs i got, top let binds OK, it is the one with the seperate original NRF (even older than the 3in1, because that was the first DEVO i ever modified)
Top Right is the one with the 3in1. Only other difference it has with the top left one, is that it has a signal amplifier. No matter what mw i choose, it fails to bind, with or without active booster.
Bottom DEVO (the one i regularly use) has the 4in1, and also has a booster (that i can switch on or off, still doesn't bind no matter how many mw i use)

The one with the original NRF binds all the time, no matter the mw.
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11 Apr 2019 14:44 - 11 Apr 2019 14:53 #73816 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
This is known issue with xn297 @ 250kbps protocols, it is stated in several places in the forums, I know we should add a note about them in the manual.
There's no way to be sure to get a "good" module, that's just a matter of luck, seems separate nrf24l01+pa/lna works better but ymmv.
More technical info here: github.com/DeviationTX/deviation/pull/836

to make it shorter: when using 250 kbps bitrate, nrf24l01 is good at receiving xn297L packets (as seen in your captures with xn297 dump) but the xn297L (what is in your Rx and stock Tx) is not good at receiving packets sent by a nrf24l01+.
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 14:53 by goebish.

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11 Apr 2019 15:03 - 11 Apr 2019 15:04 #73817 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport

goebish wrote: This is known issue with xn297 @ 250kbps protocols, it is stated in several places in the forums, I know we should add a note about them in the manual.
There's no way to be sure to get a "good" module, that's just a matter of luck, seems separate nrf24l01+pa/lna works better but ymmv.
More technical info here: github.com/DeviationTX/deviation/pull/836

to make it shorter: when using 250 kbps bitrate, nrf24l01 is good at receiving xn297L packets (as seen in your captures with xn297 dump) but the xn297L (what is in your Rx and stock Tx) is not good at receiving packets sent by a nrf24l01+.


I see... I had read something like that on the forums but didn't understand that this was the case. Well, we can't have it all (in one tx at least) :)

But on the bright side, it does bind to the old DEVO i have. I can't understand why they keep changing protocols on such cheap products... :huh: They should embrace deviation to keep selling their stuff.

So, 250kbps protocols are no go for me now on.
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 15:04 by Fer.

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11 Apr 2019 15:06 - 11 Apr 2019 15:08 #73818 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport

Fer wrote: So, 250kbps protocols are no go for me now on.


No, it might work with other 250 kbps machine, or even with another GD00X V2 Rx which has its oscillator tuned slightly differently.
Problem with the nrf24l01 is that it can't be fine tuned in software, unlike the cyrf6936, cc2500 and A7105.
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 15:08 by goebish.

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11 Apr 2019 19:04 #73820 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
I understand i was a bit unlucky this time, but since i can never know in advance if it will work or not, it is best not to buy. Those little toy grade txs are bad. I wasn't even tempted to fly the C-17 yet without it beeing flown by the DEVO.

One last question: Is it OK to keep version 75c17d5 installed on my DEVOs, or is it possible that i will have a problem? I suppose it is like any other new Nightly Build, or am i wrong?

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11 Apr 2019 19:07 #73821 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
you can keep it, it's the same than last nightly build, but with xn297 dump and gd00x v2 protocol.

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11 Apr 2019 19:09 #73822 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
Ok, thank you. And thank you all for the guiding and help with this model.

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14 Apr 2019 12:10 #73877 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
I flew this little plane today for the first time with the stock tx, and it is almost a miracle the way it flys with only two motor's differential thrust, no contol surfaces, and something that looks like a tx. I can only imagine what it would be like with the DEVO, with proper proportional control, and thust mixing with aileron.

Which leads to me ask one more question. Is there an even newer 4in1 module what uses a proper NRF chip? Or do we have to relay on older setups with individual RF chips, like the one i tryed and worked ok? If there is an even newer 4in1 i will purchase it. Thank you.

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14 Apr 2019 12:15 #73878 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
Newer modules are using actual nrf24l01+, but that doesn't guaranty xn297 @ 250 kbps works.

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14 Apr 2019 12:18 #73879 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
In deviation you can also mix aileron with channel 5 (trims) for sharper turns, very useful in a gym.

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14 Apr 2019 14:04 #73885 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport

goebish wrote: In deviation you can also mix aileron with channel 5 (trims) for sharper turns, very useful in a gym.


To clarify this... There is a first version of 4in1, which had a Low Noise Amplifier problem. Then there was a second version, that fixed the LNA problem. So now there is a third version (which still is not quaranteed to work), or you are reffering to the second version?

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14 Apr 2019 14:07 - 14 Apr 2019 14:21 #73887 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
No version is guaranteed to work, even the single nrf24l01+pa/lna module.
(there are at least 3 revisions of the 4-in-1 RF module, but slight change in crystal oscillator or loading capacitor accuracy will make it work or not ...)
Last edit: 14 Apr 2019 14:21 by goebish.

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15 Apr 2019 14:44 #73898 by planger
Replied by planger on topic C-17 Transport

goebish wrote: In deviation you can also mix aileron with channel 5 (trims) for sharper turns, very useful in a gym.

You can alo mix the elevator with throttle. So you basically set throttle to level flight and then adjust the altitude with the elevator like any other plane.
I flew last WE with the new protocol without an issue. The new board flis quite well. I haven't been able to do as tight turns as the old one but trims were not driven. I did not had the time to test it.

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15 Apr 2019 21:14 - 15 Apr 2019 22:44 #73907 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport

Fer wrote: To clarify this... There is a first version of 4in1, which had a Low Noise Amplifier problem. Then there was a second version, that fixed the LNA problem. So now there is a third version (which still is not quaranteed to work), or you are reffering to the second version?


Be patient, I just found out a way to use the CC2500 instead of the NRF24L01 for XN297L@250kbps protocols, it will take a few days to be implemented into deviation but that should fix the problem.

(first test, CC2500 connected to an Arduino and E010 flight controller ...)
Last edit: 15 Apr 2019 22:44 by goebish.

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16 Apr 2019 17:08 #73925 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
:ohmy: I can't wait!!! This is way way way beyond my understaning. Do your magic... :woohoo:

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16 Apr 2019 17:12 #73926 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
I posted a test build for E010 only (and TDR Phoenix mini) for now as I know many people are having problems with it, I want to make sure this solution is good before porting all the protocols ...

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18 Apr 2019 23:59 #74000 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
I converted the GD00X protocol to use cc2500 instead of nrf24l01, test build available, let me know if it works :)
www.dropbox.com/sh/7k5f9f62ifucnd7/AACN4...pU_AMWWIKzdXOTa?dl=0

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19 Apr 2019 13:02 #74003 by Fer
Replied by Fer on topic C-17 Transport
Sorry for my late reply. I installed the new build but it didn't work for me. I changed the frequency by steps of 20 at first and then steps of 10 from -127 to +127 but it didn't bind at any selection. After that, to make sure the plane was still in bind mode and nothing esle had happened, i used the tx it came with, and it completed the bind.

Do i have to turn the DEVO on and off after each selection? What i do, is choose the freq, then go up one menu, and hit re-init.

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19 Apr 2019 13:04 #74004 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic C-17 Transport
Ok, I probably made a mistake, I'll check that.
Tuning can be set in realtime, no need to restart the radio.

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