Jumper T8SG - First TX stock running on Deviation

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07 Sep 2017 06:10 - 09 Sep 2017 05:41 #64265 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic New TX from Banggood

Brainstorm wrote: As for price, remember that the T8SG will come with four (4!) RF modules built in! While Devo 7e is very affordable, you have to spend $40 extra for a 4-in-1 RF module, plus more for upgrades like 3-position switches and removable antenna. So I think the current $100 price for the T8SG remains quite attractive, especially if it ships with improved gimbals.


BG is now offering the Tx for $70 (price was $99 during pre-order). I am afraid response is not as expected and it will take quite some efforts to clear the 1st batch of 500.
Last edit: 09 Sep 2017 05:41 by ajtank.

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07 Sep 2017 12:13 #64270 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic New TX from Banggood

dc59 wrote: Jumper want to use unused MCU pin to control 4-in-1 module antenna switch (PE1/PE2) ,
they think it would be more stable for all system , they can change PCB layout no problem ,
but it's need firmware support !
BTW, Which pins are suitable for PE1/PE2 ? any suggestion ?

I'm a bit rusty. how are these controlled now? Is this the 4:1 mux control, or is it the PA control? Do they control it today based on the CSN value?
It should just be a digital input. adding support for it should be easy enough, and they can pick any digital pins they like (though there aren't that many free pins on the 7e, and the community may prefer to use those for additional switches or other purposes, so it'd be good to know what the issue they are having is.

Also, if it hasn't been done yet, a low-cost change they could make would be to add pads for each of the unused STM32 pins. This would make it easier for custom add-ons.

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07 Sep 2017 12:23 #64271 by joshthebox
Replied by joshthebox on topic New TX from Banggood
I think I'm going to pull the trigger and buy this one. Just a question... are the gimbals as good as the 7e's? Thanks

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07 Sep 2017 13:12 - 07 Sep 2017 13:30 #64272 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
I just checked it again - PE1 and PE2 are directly connected to the 4-way RF switch inside shielded 4in1 module.

On the Devo 4in1 module base plate, 8-pin chip (unknown) pins 5 and 6 directly connected to PE1 and PE2. Four pins connected to chip select inputs (2401, 2500, 7105, cyrf6936). So, it is 4-to-2 binary-to-BCD encoder.
Last edit: 07 Sep 2017 13:30 by vlad_vy.

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07 Sep 2017 13:29 #64273 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic New TX from Banggood
So are they just trying to get rid of the devo adapter and save cost by directly interfacing the module? Otherwise, I see no point in the extra connections to the MCU. There isn't anything wrong with getting rid of the adapter if that is what they are doing. Supporting the cahnges in Deviation should be easy enough. As I said above, I'm more concerned with the potential loss of future capability. I guess they could just move to a larger MCU package if they want to go that route in the future.

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07 Sep 2017 13:34 - 07 Sep 2017 13:56 #64274 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
They do not use devo adapter. I don't know how they manage PE1 and PE2 now. It is a question.

I don't see any related chip around 4in1 module at the top of the main board.
Last edit: 07 Sep 2017 13:56 by vlad_vy.

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07 Sep 2017 15:33 - 07 Sep 2017 15:35 #64276 by Brainstorm
Replied by Brainstorm on topic New TX from Banggood

ajtank wrote: BG is now offering the Tx for $80, which is a more reasonable price if the gimbals are improved.
As the volume of the 4-in-1 module increases with the additional sales of Tx, it should no longer cost $40. I do appreciate the manufacturer's efforts to introduce a customized product, it is just the market driving the sellers to be cost sensitive.


FYI, I got a shipment notification for my pre-order this morning. If BG is selling this TX now, it's the existing v1.0 hardware. So no improved gimbals at all.

It looks to me like BG decided to sell the stock they received "as is" and at a discount. A public beta if you will. Therefore, the feedback and efforts of the Deviation developer community will likely flow into a revised version down the road. I do hope we see a new revision with improved hardware as well as dedicated/official Deviation firmware.
Last edit: 07 Sep 2017 15:35 by Brainstorm.

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07 Sep 2017 16:44 #64280 by Whatsinaname
Replied by Whatsinaname on topic New TX from Banggood

dc59 wrote:

aMax wrote: Is this size comparison real? Quite a big radio.

img09.banggood.com/forum_images/20170906...0906035921_53229.jpg


Compare to Frsky QX7 & X9D+ :


Great size comparison. I have been watching this thread and even though my qx7 is bigger the rotary encoder is faster than push button navigation especially when setting values or names.

The M7 Hall sensor gimbals might fit in there (jumper) but time will tell.

Truthfully the biggest point I miss about my modded devo7e with 4in1 module is the ability to adjust output power. That won't happen on frsky :(

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07 Sep 2017 17:29 #64281 by Phobos
Replied by Phobos on topic New TX from Banggood

Brainstorm wrote:
FYI, I got a shipment notification for my pre-order this morning. If BG is selling this TX now, it's the existing v1.0 hardware. So no improved gimbals at all.

It looks to me like BG decided to sell the stock they received "as is" and at a discount. A public beta if you will. Therefore, the feedback and efforts of the Deviation developer community will likely flow into a revised version down the road. I do hope we see a new revision with improved hardware as well as dedicated/official Deviation firmware.


Yup, I also received the notification.
I'm sure if they decide to improve the gimbals they'll probably offer an upgrade set, just like with taranis m9 or qx7 m7 gimbals.
I'm more concerned with mainboard modifications in future revisions, but everything can be modded, right? :D

The product is really good as it is, on paper at least.

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07 Sep 2017 18:40 - 07 Sep 2017 18:44 #64283 by Brainstorm
Replied by Brainstorm on topic New TX from Banggood

Phobos wrote: I'm sure if they decide to improve the gimbals they'll probably offer an upgrade set, just like with taranis m9 or qx7 m7 gimbals.


Let's hope they offer upgraded gimbals for the v1 model!

I'm more concerned with mainboard modifications in future revisions, but everything can be modded, right? :D


Of course. But if we want to mod, we already have the nice Devo 7e. I was kinda hoping this multi-protocol compact TX was the holy grail that didn't need modding. ;)

The product is really good as it is, on paper at least.


Agree that it looks good. That's why I didn't hesitate to pre-order. But as we've discussed in this thread and elsewhere (RCGroups), there's plenty of room for improvement. I very much hope that Deviation developers working with manufacturer via dc59 bears fruit!

PS for dc59: Thanks a million for the fantastic comparison pics with Taranis QX7 and D9X! Those are very helpful. Now we just need a comparison with Horus X10 (and X12). ;)
Last edit: 07 Sep 2017 18:44 by Brainstorm.

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07 Sep 2017 23:54 #64284 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood

joshthebox wrote: I think I'm going to pull the trigger and buy this one. Just a question... are the gimbals as good as the 7e's? Thanks


Gimbals of T8SG is worse than Devo7E at this moment , there is no bearing , but it will be released a new version with hall sensor gimbals.

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07 Sep 2017 23:57 #64285 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood

Brainstorm wrote: PS for dc59: Thanks a million for the fantastic comparison pics with Taranis QX7 and D9X! Those are very helpful. Now we just need a comparison with Horus X10 (and X12). ;)


I don't have Horus X10 or X12 ...... :(

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08 Sep 2017 01:27 #64286 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood

PhracturedBlue wrote: Do they control it today based on the CSN value?


Yes! I confirm that with Jumper , there is a chip to check CNS1/2/3/4 signal then this chip will send signal to PE1/PE2 to select antenna,
but they think CNS signal sometimes is not easy to get correct signal (actually I don't really know why?), that's why they want to use MCU pin.

PhracturedBlue wrote: Also, if it hasn't been done yet, a low-cost change they could make would be to add pads for each of the unused STM32 pins. This would make it easier for custom add-ons.


They will add pads for unused pins next time they modify PCB.

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08 Sep 2017 02:08 #64287 by ajtank
Replied by ajtank on topic New TX from Banggood
To my understanding, CSN of nRF24L01 does not need to be constantly pulled low to activate. That is why a small STC MCU is used to catch the CSN signals otherwise any common decoder chip can replace the MCU.

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08 Sep 2017 02:47 #64288 by RoGuE_StreaK
Replied by RoGuE_StreaK on topic New TX from Banggood
If there are going to be customisations to the code anyway, maybe we/they can take a step backwards and look at a different way of doing the selections? Instead of using 6x MCU pins for the 4x chip selects plus 2 more for the PE1/PE2, could it be recoded as a single serial output of some sort which is then split out to the individual lines by a decoder chip? That then frees up 5x MCU pins for future use?

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08 Sep 2017 05:13 - 08 Sep 2017 06:44 #64289 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
Probably, they need to use a more complex 4-to-2 encoder with latches on the first front of the CNS pulse. Or the 4-to-2 encoder has insufficient load capacity to drive the 4-way RF chip and the CM052B chip (inside shielded 4in1 module).
Last edit: 08 Sep 2017 06:44 by vlad_vy.

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08 Sep 2017 10:04 - 08 Sep 2017 10:06 #64290 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic New TX from Banggood - more memory?
I know they already went to the next size up, but the next big feature is going to need even more.

The Taranis folks are using scripting capabilities to do things like video tx & PID tuning. But Lua takes 70K of flash even for a stripped down build. The "normal language" alternatives I've looked at - micropython (hey, I'm giving a talk on that in OKC next Wednesday!) and picoc - aren't any smaller. We might be able to go to something like Forth or a Lisp, but, well, um, people are already intimidated by the firmware.

This works on the Taranis because they've got 512K of flash. The 12S does as well.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.
Last edit: 08 Sep 2017 10:06 by mwm.

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08 Sep 2017 13:44 #64292 by Nitro_123
Replied by Nitro_123 on topic New TX from Banggood - more memory?
To get around all this why not go for a completely custom tx board ? With a more powrtful cpu, spi flash, SD card , more pins for more io, the works ?

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08 Sep 2017 13:54 - 08 Sep 2017 13:56 #64293 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood

vlad_vy wrote: I just checked it again - PE1 and PE2 are directly connected to the 4-way RF switch inside shielded 4in1 module.

On the Devo 4in1 module base plate, 8-pin chip (unknown) pins 5 and 6 directly connected to PE1 and PE2. Four pins connected to chip select inputs (2401, 2500, 7105, cyrf6936). So, it is 4-to-2 binary-to-BCD encoder.


I don't know if it has sense, but outputs of 4-to-2 encoder (PE1 and PE2) have pull-up resistors 10kOm (to +3.3V) on the Devo 4in1 module base plate.
Last edit: 08 Sep 2017 13:56 by vlad_vy.

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08 Sep 2017 20:43 #64294 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic New TX from Banggood - more memory?

Nitro_123 wrote: To get around all this why not go for a completely custom tx board ? With a more powrtful cpu, spi flash, SD card , more pins for more io, the works ?


There are a number of people working on this - including me. But the hardware (case, gimbals, etc.) in that case are of low or highly variable quality, it looks ugly, and everyone who wants one has to build their own, so you can't leverage economies of scale and it winds up costing a lot.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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