Devo 12s 3in1 / 4in1 RF module neat installation.

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08 Feb 2017 17:28 #58931 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Hello,
I am using the current 3in1 module from Banggood. Unfortunately, I have trouble running the Eachine E010 stable even at 10mW or 3mW output power. Therefore, I installed a 3.3V, 500mA, Pololu-Stepdown to power the 3in1 module. Unfortunately, the E010 still does not work correctly. Partially, it loses the binding, or responds strongly to input signals (sometimes over 1 second).
So I have measured during the switched transmitter the voltage at the Pololu. However, I have measured at the output not 3.3V, but only 3.076V.




On contact V DD the Devo even only 3,051V.



Is this the problem, or are these measured values normal?
Should I use an adjustable StepDown and set the 3.3V so that the E010 works correctly?

Best regards
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08 Feb 2017 17:41 #58933 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Most RF chips have operating voltage 1.9 - 3.6V

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08 Feb 2017 18:45 #58940 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Sure is right, but it is known that instability in the 3in1 module can lead to functional problems with the Eachine E010. For me this is at least so ...

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08 Feb 2017 21:16 #58949 by HappyHarry
Replied by HappyHarry on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
what voltage is the pololu being supplied with? also i can't clearly see your wiring and i can't understand why you have 3 different ground connections, and why are you getting voltage measuring between the ground on the SWD port and the ground on the cyrf shield?

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09 Feb 2017 01:14 #58953 by Iroquois
Replied by Iroquois on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Have you measured the voltage coming from the existing regulator on the transmitter board? Why not just replace this with a higher rated regulator instead of complicating things?

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09 Feb 2017 01:55 #58958 by Tjackson
Replied by Tjackson on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
I just got my 4in1 installed into my (2nd) devo 10.( I messed up the pad for the nrf wire on the first one.) Anyway, I need to buy a laptop now to use deviation software. I haven't needed a computer for a few years, I just use my tablet, phone, or smart TV. Does it matter which version of Windows it's running? Most of the ones I'm looking at come with Windows 10. Thanks in advance!

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09 Feb 2017 05:11 - 09 Feb 2017 05:12 #58959 by jayodas
Replied by jayodas on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
You can try to use 1mW and then the connection with your e010 might be stable. No guarantees. It works for some but not all.
Basically the NRF24l01 chip in all the 3in1 is either a clone or has some sort of defect in it. I have the same problems and even other toy quads will fly funny with it.

So, to everyone out there, DO NOT BUY the 3in1!


Maxner wrote: Hello,
I am using the current 3in1 module from Banggood. Unfortunately, I have trouble running the Eachine E010 stable even at 10mW or 3mW output power. Therefore, I installed a 3.3V, 500mA, Pololu-Stepdown to power the 3in1 module. Unfortunately, the E010 still does not work correctly. Partially, it loses the binding, or responds strongly to input signals (sometimes over 1 second).
So I have measured during the switched transmitter the voltage at the Pololu. However, I have measured at the output not 3.3V, but only 3.076V.




On contact V DD the Devo even only 3,051V.



Is this the problem, or are these measured values normal?
Should I use an adjustable StepDown and set the 3.3V so that the E010 works correctly?

Best regards

Last edit: 09 Feb 2017 05:12 by jayodas.

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09 Feb 2017 06:19 - 09 Feb 2017 06:25 #58960 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Hi, thanks for the answers. The wiring of the ground cable are from a recommendation here in the forum ( from "robpur" ). Actually, an additional 2 ground cables from the shield of the original RF module should be connected to the shield of the 3in1.

Anyway - I now have the option to use a single nrf24l01 + module (which is certainly cheaper), or completely upgrade to 4in1. Then there would be the problem with the 3.3V voltage no longer ...
Sure would be the last variant more neat, but also almost as expensive as the new DEVO7e ;)
Last edit: 09 Feb 2017 06:25 by Maxner.

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09 Feb 2017 07:24 #58961 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V

jayodas wrote: You can try to use 1mW and then the connection with your e010 might be stable. No guarantees. It works for some but not all.
Basically the NRF24l01 chip in all the 3in1 is either a clone or has some sort of defect in it. I have the same problems and even other toy quads will fly funny with it.

So, to everyone out there, DO NOT BUY the 3in1!


Does the BG 4in1 work reliably, even with DSM2 (Devo7e-deviation-devo7e-v5.0.0-9d52e48)?

On the product page: "- Part program version DSM2 have protocol compatibility problems.
- Some receiver (original AR600) need to rebind per use,some receiver (Spektrum integrated receiver) frame rate is a bit slow. This issue basically determine the problem is on the program itself.
"

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09 Feb 2017 08:26 #58964 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V

jayodas wrote: You can try to use 1mW and then the connection with your e010 might be stable. No guarantees. It works for some but not all.
Basically the NRF24l01 chip in all the 3in1 is either a clone or has some sort of defect in it. I have the same problems and even other toy quads will fly funny with it.

So, to everyone out there, DO NOT BUY the 3in1!


Hi jayodas,
When did you get your 3in1 ? I don't have this problem with both my 4in1 and 3in1, could it be possible that's caused by some batch of nRF24L01 chip?

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09 Feb 2017 08:32 #58965 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Hi dc59,
which deviation FW do you use?

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09 Feb 2017 09:06 #58967 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
@ jayodas,

Please take a look at this post
www.deviationtx.com/forum/protocol-devel...ltoys-q303?start=100

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09 Feb 2017 09:07 #58968 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V

Maxner wrote: Hi dc59,
which deviation FW do you use?


I'm working now,will let you know when I get home. :)

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09 Feb 2017 09:14 #58969 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Thank you, no rush. It would be only for information. I use one of the last Nightly Builds-FW. What do you mean: maybe a good function of the module has something to do with the FW version?

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09 Feb 2017 09:38 #58971 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V

Maxner wrote: Thank you, no rush. It would be only for information. I use one of the last Nightly Builds-FW. What do you mean: maybe a good function of the module has something to do with the FW version?


I don't think it came from different FW version, I think maybe it was frequency shifting issue, just guessing! :P

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09 Feb 2017 11:38 #58974 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V

Maxner wrote: Hi dc59,
which deviation FW do you use?


Ultimate 7E(MCU upgraded) + 3in1 with devo7e-256-v5.0.0-28fd02d FW
DEVO10 + 4in1 with devo10-v5.0.0-28fd02d

All work fine with E010 quad.

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09 Feb 2017 11:50 - 09 Feb 2017 11:55 #58975 by Maxner
Replied by Maxner on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Thanks for the information.
My Hubsan 107D, Inductrix and other spektrum compatible models also work fine- only with the E010 is crazy ..:S


Anyway - I give up with the 3in1. Have now ordered the 4in1 module and hope that there are no complications ...
Last edit: 09 Feb 2017 11:55 by Maxner.

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09 Feb 2017 11:59 #58976 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
The problem with the E010 protocol (or any XN297L protocol running at 250kbps) is that it requires a crystal accuracy of 20 ppm as stated in the XN297L datasheet. The 3-in-1 / 4-in-1 are using 40 or 60 ppm crystals because that's what is stated in the nrf24l01 datasheet ( www.deviationtx.com/forum/protocol-devel...-q303?start=40#55616 ), but that's not accurate enough. Some units have better tolerance, that's why not everyone has the problem.
A possible fix is to replace the loading capacitors that are located around the nrf24l01 crystal to trim it (15pF, 0402 package):
www.deviationtx.com/forum/protocol-devel...-q303?start=80#56734
www.deviationtx.com/forum/protocol-devel...q303?start=100#56818

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09 Feb 2017 12:13 #58979 by Fernandez
Replied by Fernandez on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
But this accuracy is needed at both sides isn't it? also the X-tal in the quad could be off ?
If problem is random like that depending on tolerances, the cheap toys drones should suffer those freq issues now and then, out of the box...?

Could it also be that osc internal resonator circuitry slightly differ, between NRF and XN297L, so placing the same x tal , result in difference freq between both chip? But when the same chip, same offset, so works toghether? Tuning freq indeed solve?

Just thinking out loud.

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09 Feb 2017 12:17 #58980 by goebish
Replied by goebish on topic 3in1 RF module Pololu 3,3V
Yes this accuracy is required on both side.
I suppose cheap toy drones / tx that are using xn297L at 250kbps are using 20 ppm crystals.

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