Jumper T8SG - First TX stock running on Deviation

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04 Oct 2017 20:11 #64831 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic New TX from Banggood

llinde wrote: Changing is not that easy as you say, you have to change sw a0 to sw ax, change sw a2 to sw a0, change sw ay to sw a2 and that for 4 switches and 45 ini files....
For me this would be a reason not to upgrade to new firmware versions.

Note that we support auto-mapping switches across transmitter lines. It isn't perfect, but should work well for many cases

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04 Oct 2017 20:23 #64832 by llinde
Replied by llinde on topic New TX from Banggood

Twilight_Sun wrote: about switches - couldn't you just mechanically turn them upside down? aren't they symmetrical?


Might be the best solution, but doesn't prevent confusion since not everybody turns them.

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04 Oct 2017 20:41 #64833 by kmewes
Replied by kmewes on topic New TX from Banggood
They don't need to be turned. You can just as easily reassign them in the model setup/mixer using the auto mapping PB mentioned. I have done it for about 20 models now. Sure it's a little time consuming to go through each model after copying them with the Model Manager from my 8S and my F7. But since the names and switch types/locations are quite different you can't get an absolute match anyway, just a close one. Important ones like throttle hold and FMODE I keep in the same place possible. The only problem is with 2-way switches since all the Jumper ones are 3-way. You have to make sure to go all the way if you are assigning a previous 2-way like Gear/Throttle hold if you are coming from the 8S. The F7 has Gear on the left and TH on the far left front where the 8S has the RUDD DR. So no consistency there also. I decided to do another setup for Jumper with most crucial function in familiar places. I might have to stick new labels with the switches to remind me what they do. Pretty 'funky' and 'hacky' but if it saves my birds from me crashing them so be it.
Cheers.

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05 Oct 2017 00:25 #64835 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood

vlad_vy wrote: I've just got my Jumper T8SG.

First, it has not battery box inside, but 4 empty posts on back cover. :(


Hi vlad_vy,

Would you please take a picture for me, I want to claim Jumper about this, and report all these bugs.

Thank you very much.

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05 Oct 2017 02:23 #64837 by ltwvince
Replied by ltwvince on topic New TX from Banggood

vlad_vy wrote:

vlad_vy wrote: Fifth, all switches reversed, upper position = SW2, middle SW1, lower SW0. I think that it does not really matter, since they are non-typical switches.


What do you think about switches? Is it worth fix it or leave it as is?


+1 for switches consistency with all other devos.

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05 Oct 2017 03:58 - 05 Oct 2017 03:58 #64838 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
For me, at first time I was confused with a switch assignment with T8SG, since it break common way for ALL transmitters - "start switch position is SW0 and it has to be the farthest positiom from me". If use automatic switch assignment with the switch field selected, it's not a problem, but with any other way (edit *.ini file) it breaks the common logic.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2017 03:58 by vlad_vy.

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05 Oct 2017 06:54 - 05 Oct 2017 07:01 #64842 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
Added T8SG build with all four switches SWA, SWB, SWC and SWD reversed:

www.deviationtx.com/forum/builds/7346-jumper-t8sg-builds

I was lucky that I already set up only 5 models before this change.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2017 07:01 by vlad_vy.

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05 Oct 2017 13:25 #64846 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood

dc59 wrote:

vlad_vy wrote: I've just got my Jumper T8SG.

First, it has not battery box inside, but 4 empty posts on back cover. :(


Hi vlad_vy,

Would you please take a picture for me, I want to claim Jumper about this, and report all these bugs.

Thank you very much.


Attachments:

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05 Oct 2017 14:21 - 05 Oct 2017 14:22 #64847 by victzh
Replied by victzh on topic New TX from Banggood
Mine doesn't have a battery box either. To have the battery in direct contact with radio module is not ... wise? But the space for battery is not that large, my 800mAh 2S Zippy fits but without much wiggle room.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2017 14:22 by victzh. Reason: Grammar

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05 Oct 2017 14:29 - 05 Oct 2017 14:30 #64848 by llinde
Replied by llinde on topic New TX from Banggood
Mine has a non functioning throttle trim up button, I get the idea quality control and build quality of this TX is not the best.
I also wonder how they could make a board design with a total unaccesible USB connector and also a very unhandy place for the Lipo connector.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2017 14:30 by llinde.

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05 Oct 2017 20:43 #64854 by victzh
Replied by victzh on topic New TX from Banggood
I wanted to summarize my impression and some suggestions for this TX. It repeats what many other people said, but maybe it's useful to keep it in one place.

Maybe even Wiki page here.

What I liked:

Very, very good first attempt - solid build, great size and weight. No TX like this on the market.

What could be better:

1. All the switches and elevator are in the wrong direction, better fix it in hardware to simplify support.
2. No battery compartment - battery touches RF module!
3. Battery compartment is small despite the absence of the battery wall.
4. AUX POTs are small both in diameter and height to be convenient.
5. No Throttle Hold on the side - it should be on the side, not on the front.
6. Linear reg as a first stage - better use switch DC-DC converter, then separate linear reg for MCU, RF module, and buzzer.
7. The build is solid, but some stuff is soldered directly to the board, so maintainability is suffering.
8. USB is in strange place, not accessible (1st version) or hardly accessible (2nd).
9. No extensibility - they can use slightly more powerful MCU and break out unused pins for modders.

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06 Oct 2017 00:01 #64857 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood
Thanks Victzh for your summary, I will pass to Jumper, their long vacation in China should be ended at Oct. 8.

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06 Oct 2017 01:58 #64858 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic New TX from Banggood
Bruce Simpson just got one to review . He hit on something I would also like: change the aux knobs to ones with dedents.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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06 Oct 2017 03:03 #64859 by dc59
Replied by dc59 on topic New TX from Banggood
Hi Victzh,

I have got reply from Jumper as below:

1. All the switches and elevator are in the wrong direction, better fix it in hardware to simplify support.
Jumper : They will correct this bug at production side, include AUX4/AUX5 direction.

2. No battery compartment - battery touches RF module!
Jumper : It's only happen on developer's sample,it's their fault,they will ship battery compartment when they ship hall gimbals next time,but I need to know how many developers didn't get battery compartment.

3. Battery compartment is small despite the absence of the battery wall.
Jumper : They will design a new compartment to support 4xAA battery or do you have any idea about the size?

4. AUX POTs are small both in diameter and height to be convenient.
Jumper : They will add a adapter/replacement in the future for bigger pots.

5. No Throttle Hold on the side - it should be on the side, not on the front.
Jumper : There is no more space for a switch on shouder , they need some time to discuss about this issue,the second problem is that MCU has no more available pin for it.

6. Linear reg as a first stage - better use switch DC-DC converter, then separate linear reg for MCU, RF module, and buzzer.
Jumper : Will DC-DC converter cause interference issue to RF module?

7. The build is solid, but some stuff is soldered directly to the board, so maintainability is suffering.
Jumper : They will make it better on next version.

8. USB is in strange place, not accessible (1st version) or hardly accessible (2nd).
Jumper : Is there any suggestion for USB port location? they will try to revise it.

9. No extensibility - they can use slightly more powerful MCU and break out unused pins for modders.
Jumper : Do you have a recommanded MCU for this?

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06 Oct 2017 05:54 #64862 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic New TX from Banggood
I think it's bad idea to change hardware directions on the fly. What will do the users of first batches? Will be better to leave hardware as is and fix directions by software.

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06 Oct 2017 06:27 #64863 by Wene001
Replied by Wene001 on topic New TX from Banggood
10. improve lcd backlight design

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06 Oct 2017 07:24 #64865 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic New TX from Banggood

vlad_vy wrote: I think it's bad idea to change hardware directions on the fly. What will do the users of first batches? Will be better to leave hardware as is and fix directions by software.


I agree. This is already fixed in software on our builds. These are really software bugs, not hardware bugs, so fixing them in software on the next shipment makes more sense than taking the hardware creating two different transmitters.

I think a "modder-friendly" MCU should also wait - for a "modder-friendly" Tx. Something with all the unused pins broken out on through holes would be awesome. I can't really sit at a desk now, so haven't checked. How many unused pins are in this build? And that would be a good product to go to a 512k flash system for scripting.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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06 Oct 2017 07:37 #64866 by mwm
Replied by mwm on topic New TX from Banggood
Two new notes:

I'm seeing the same failure to properly recenter the elevator sick that Bruce reported in his review.

Does anyone else think the switch labels are random? Personally, is like them to go from left (sw a) to right (sw d) across the Tx, but but there are some other orders that make sense - none of which are what it has.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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06 Oct 2017 12:52 - 06 Oct 2017 12:53 #64870 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic New TX from Banggood

dc59 wrote: 6. Linear reg as a first stage - better use switch DC-DC converter, then separate linear reg for MCU, RF module, and buzzer.
Jumper : Will DC-DC converter cause interference issue to RF module?

My experiments with the UniversalTx showed no RF impact using a DC/DC switching regulator directly for the RF when using a high quality converter (TPS62172DSGT) and properly placed caps for RF/MCU. I would not recommend doing this for the TX though due to the higher power requirements. Instead, I'd probably use a similar DC/DC converter and a separate Linear regulator for the MCU and RF only (I think you could run the buzzer/backlight directly off the DC/DC?) A solution like this would allow a lot of flexibility in battery supply (anything from 1S to 16V) with high efficiency. The battery voltage monitor circuit may need to be tweaked a bit though. I would personally love to see USB charging supported, but that can't be easily done without precise knowledge of the battery, so I guess that isn't in the cards.

My Tx is still stuck on the slow-boat, so I can't talk to the design, but I think Jumper should slow down a little. As I've said before, many iterations of the Tx is bad for us. It is hard to manage on the software side. First, we really need them to provide a method of detecting the hardware version (something stored in the bootloader probably). Next, I would then rather have them provide a list of specific features they plan to implement in the next revision that we could then discuss. I get the feeling they are over-eager here, and trying to appease everyone as quickly as possible is a recipe for disaster.
Last edit: 06 Oct 2017 12:53 by PhracturedBlue.

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06 Oct 2017 14:34 #64873 by victzh
Replied by victzh on topic New TX from Banggood
Also, this type of power supply is used in Radiolink - MC34063 (if memory serves) down to 5V, then 1117s to MCU, RF module, and buzzer.
I agree, buzzer may be a bit extreme, on the other hand it generates a lot of noise.

Re switches and POTs/Ele direction - if we'd have a way to distinguish versions the question would be moot. I doubt they'll diligently change bootloader with every hardware change, though, so it's probably better to leave them as is.

@dc59 - I rescind my point 1 - leave controls as they are now.

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